Unity's Flames Discussion

[The Union of Tinis]

Alright folks, as things seemed to of been getting a tad heated and random in Unity's Flames, I've used my eerie mod powers to lock the thread.

I want 3 things from everyone.

1. How your nation/people thus far views what has been happening thus far.

2. What they're current motivations and goals are.

3. What sort of resolution you would like to see from the plot line.

Aluez will speak for the NPC Salnai.

Once the major players have done this, we'll then discuss which of these RP goals we can accomplish and how to best go from the past/present to get to them.

Also, if you wish to have a war between your player nation and another player nation, now is the time to make your desires known and to begin to discuss how the conflict will proceed. If one player OOCly does not wish to participate in a war, THERE WILL BE NO WAR. And you will figure out how to preserve the peace in character wise that doesn't result in one player having to bend over backwards. We're not here to compare the size of our e-man hoods, we're here to have fun.

What more, it might be wise for folks to start gauging better how other folks will react to certain situations and happenings. If you're uncertain as to if doing something makes any sense in character or is likely to get a reaction you expect, then do ask that other player.

Alright, have at it. Keep it civil. I don't want to have to lock this thread. *gives folks the evil eye*

[Kingdoms of Cal]

We have calmed it down. In fact very much, please unlock the thread, in my case a tad to much of the brown stuff was involved and if you check you will find things have become more civilised.

[Kingdoms of Cal]

Look please just unlock the thread, the problem has been fixed and pulling the aggressive mod stuff does not suit you. Things got out of hand, yeah, but they have been fixed now.

[aatuylva]

It is a well known fact that the Red Serpents are not allowed inside the borders of Aatuylva, first because they disregarded sovereignty and barged in, backed up by fighter-bombers, and second because their doctrines prevent them from wielding weapons and taking the Deep Patrol course required of all foreign agencies seeking to perform search and rescue and humanitarian aid missions. Aatuylva has not had experience dealing with NGOs, and only vaguely recognizes they exist because of what little knowledge they have about the World Wars, and Aatuylvan law is fairly...aggressive, when it goes to organizations and bodies not under government or military control, as seen with independent telecomms unions, the separatists, and other groups.
Basically the backwards hillbillies think the Red Serpents are a bunch of high and mighty terrorists who would use their so-called 'reputation' to smuggle in weapons and insurgents.
Also, with the knowledge of New Gracaria being at a high DEFCON, they'd wager they never should've been there in the first place, and deserve to be sunk. As for the Salnai situation, they are extremely miffed at them and going to threaten the Salnese to leave while they legalize the Aluezi's right to be there.


The Confederacy as a whole is extremely frustrated, and is growing exceedingly tired of perceived and real threats to it's sovereignty, repeated incursions and diplomatic hang-ups have begun to slowly push at them, and combined with increased rebel activity, the Salnai incident, and numerous antagonisms between the allies of Aatuylva, the people as a whole are torn between returning to isolationism to a campaign of expansion and modernization...
Those in the government are likewise frustrated, Stidham in particular is slowly gaining support from the military and growing ill with the Council's bickering and wavering when he needs to decide in the moment.
Governor Dunsel, unfortunately, is beginning to lose faith in people outside of Aatuylva, and may resign soon, which would be disastrous as without his supporter-base than Stidham would be able to overtake the People's Council and declare himself High Praetor.
Wira is concerned, but is more worried about attempted espionage, and while a few have been suspected, the quiet assassinations of those proven have begun to send the message across that Aatuylva is not a safe place for foreign intelligence officers, so she's considerably more mellow than the other two.
Overall, I'd say their goals are, first and foremost, the safety of the Confederacy from all threats.
Secondly, the defense of their allies from agents that they view as increasingly arrogant and belligerent.


I have no idea what resolution I would like to see, as really, I let the characters write these things half the time. Yes, I'm tempered a bit by my own emotions, but those are also tied into what the characters are feeling.
Right now everyone in Aatuylva is frustrated and mistrustful of everyone south of the equator, and they're on the hair-triggers.
A peaceful resolution would be cool, and would free them up to fight the Salnese, but it would also be diplomatically expensive as far as relation-repairing goes, as those in the south would have to convince a nation of people who are convinced that they are going to invade them that they are, instead, friends.
That's going to take a very long time with these guys.
Likewise, a few military skirmishes would be cool, and would not need to result in open war, as proxy wars and skirmishes happen after all. A kind of cold war scenario, as that is what this has built up to be. Something where each party plans with the other to make a kind of brinkmanship RP between the missiles, open war, skrimishes, tense peace, and poor politicians going insane and pulling their hair out.
Of course, open war, if we go that route instead, would require intense planning, and would require several threads of setting up as alliances are settled, infrastructure is built, and battleplans are drawn, otherwise, with how close it is now, it would result in launching of missiles because no one is ready for an industrial scale World War save perhaps Salnai or Aatuylva, because of our belligerent natures. Anea is recovering from things, the Commonwealth is..well...I don't think they could keep their ships fed. Aluez is currently battling Salnai over land, and everyone else is probably ragged from the tensions brought upon by the SOTO fleet and the Aluezi/Salnai scenerio.
I guess, in short, I'm up for whatever happens so long as Aatuylva still exists at the end.

[Aluez]

ALRIGHT! I think it's about time what I have planned... Because at this rate, we are gonna just end up nuking the planet (thank god for underground cities).

What has happened so far:

• Blair was shot by a Salnese Diplomat and hospitalized after nearly bleeding to death.
  
• Salnai approaches the Furfed council in an attempt to shoot down the Aluezi's claim and get their land taken away from them
  
• Aluez and Aatuylva send a diplomatic party out to the Altzan hall, which is delayed due to Salnese-funded rebels in Aatuylva attacking them with MISSLES!
  
• More insanity occurs with an unplanned visit from Mio's diplomat, who is promptly murdered by the EG Wishwing, and transformed into a Malych (I think).
  
• Several soldiers are 'killed' as a result of the Andertol's rampage on an escape path.
  
• Global blackout of Aluezi occurs, causing the entire populace of Aluez and Tyr to collapse and go into GRS (Gamma-Ray Signal) Stasis
  
• Alueza blows up a missle silo, Salnai retaliates with force at the nearest target, which happens to be the SOTO fleet
  
• Aneans attack New Harrison Island defenses, they retaliate with extreme force by launching ICBM's into orbit toward the ship that was attacking them
  
• Council madness leads to Salnai failing in getting Aluez thrown out. IN TURN, it does disregard their sovereignty, and proved that they are intruding in another country's land.

[/b] [/color]
[/li][li] IX deploys troops to Alenia for security reasons of an ally.
[/li][li] IX meets with the council, breaks Blair's nose. Council buys shares from him for economics.
[/li][li] Report comes in of incoming Salnese troops. First skirmish occurs. Aluezi victory.
[/li][li] Cali forces send food supplies to The Republic.
[/li][li] Arrogance and hardheadedness of the Red Serpent leaders by barking and bitching orders leads to the ships being blown up by an airstrike.
[/li][li] Public outrage of the Cali, calling for revenge for the lives lost, fleets begin moving north.
[/li][li] Words are exchanged between IX and Salanto
[/li][li] Nakhi is arrested for his actions[/color]
[/li][/ul]

NOW! You nutters can have your little snapping fest, but here is what is going to happen according to MY plan:

• Salnai and Aluez descend into a cold, bitter war with one-another, starting with spying, recon on one-another, and boarder skirmishes. This goes on for 6 months.
  
• War breaks out between rebel and Tyr government forces (I think I've already cleared this with Aatuylva, will doublecheck in the morning). Tyr turns into the first state to instate the Cossack act. Rebel-Government war rages for 7 months before spreading to other areas.
  
• Yuna and Bulzia declare themselves allies of Salnai. Unidentified aircraft begin to streak across the Aatuylvan skies, bombing Government forces before either being shot down or disappearing altogether.
  
• Salnai declares open war on Aluez, but also requests that other nations mind their own *beep*ing business unless they wish to deal with an army bigger than China. If people do or do not, I do not know, you're welcome to join, or leave at your own accord!
  
• Aluez naturally throws up defenses from everywhere they could get it, and prepares for the worst.
  
• Alenia is burned to the ground from a Wehrmacht air raid composed of 10 bombers and 25 fighters
  
• Salnese ground forces charge the burned city, only to get beaten back by the surviving militia and military forces, as well as allied forces if present.
  
• Alenia instates the Cossack act. 5000 Cossacks from ages 10 to 42 are recruited.
  
• Cossacks march out to war. Several towns and bases are raided before they return. 40 Salnese people are killed in the raids, 49 are captured, and at least 200 are injured and later die of their injuries.
  
• Alenia is raided by Air again, only this time Skyships exchange fire. 3 Aluezi frigates are downed and crash into the trenches, killing dozens of soldiers. 2 Salnese dreadnoughts are destroyed, and later are dismantled for their armor and guns to add to the defenses of the city.
  
• Major ground assault occurs after defenses are repaired, at least 7000 soldiers assault the city again as artillery and rockets rain down from the skies.
  
• 3 A.S.: New Years. Several bombers raid Alenia again, only to be shot down from orbit by a new presence in orbit: an Annihilator III purchased from the Republic.
  
• Salnai starts popping satellites as a warning that any orbital weapons WILL be eliminated if used again
  
• A malfunction in the Weather Control Systems spawns a hellish winter over Aluez, which becomes a White Death scenario. Temperatures dip down into 8 below zero, obviously causing insane weather anomalies in the valley.
  
• Salnai sends its 55th Sky fleet to New Harrison Island. Reports of 100,000 troops are being amassed on the island. Further reports are posted up of a grand total of 190,000 troops amassed in Salnese territory.
  
• March, 3 A.S. to December 5 A.S.: White Death ends. An operation known only to the world as Operation: Hells Gate begins. All 190,000 Salnese troops are mobilized into Aluez. Bombardment from Skyships begins as troops kill ANYONE attempting to enter the rogue territory.
  
• Underground farms are established to ensure that the populace doesn't starve. Airdrops from other nations manage to sneak through in night from time to time.
  
• Christmas Eve, 5 A.S.: A group of black uniformed soldiers is reported to be in the Salnese blockade, massacring everything in sight. 3 hours later, a horde of Ghouls invades a Salnese supply base 3 miles away, killing most of it's inhabitance. Salnai sets off a 50 KT Airburst bomb over the camp, destroying the horde of undead.
  
• Bombardment continues.
  

This is what I have so far! It is open for discussion, edit, and so on!

[The Anean Star Empire]

1. Thus far, the leaders of the nation (IX, Nakhi, Soldavini) have been reacting as things happened. Nakhi was asked to move the fleet south. IX went to Aluez to place security forces in the event of someone attacking.

With IX, he was unaware of the situation back at the colony (i.e. the attack on the Red Serpent ships) and therefore isn't too happy.

With Nakhi, he doesn't like being told what to do by anyone other than those that are actually above him. The lack of respect on the part of the RS was enough to make him attack them.

Soldavini on the other hand has been following orders or acting as he saw fit, even if he didn't have the authority to (i.e. letting the RS in the first place)

As for the people, they are, for the most part, scared, but ready to fight if it comes down to it. The attack on the RS wasn't popular, but they see it as necessary.


2. Motivations and goals on the other hand are a little trickier.

IX's motivations are simply to keep the peace. He doesn't want a war. He's as mad at Nakhi and Soldavini as he is at the Cali navy.

Nakhi is acting to defend the nation by any means necessary since they are at DEFCON 1. Nothing is supposed to get into the territory.

Soldavini is, like Nakhi, trying to defend the nation, but breaking rules and protocol in an attempt to do so.

Luca is just taking orders and acting on them. She was given the order to make the SOTO fleet leave. Until they directly contact the Anean fleet and say they are leaving, the fleet continues on.


3. As for resolutions, I want it to take its own course. That's the fun of it. Never knowing what happens next.

[miokalia]

I have something to say with this but Im at work and tiny Sanyo keyboard is tiny. Im not singling anyone out. its just there are some things that can be fixed so that everything gets put back on track. I*ll post when i get home



Sent from Acme Nondescript Webtubes Phone Thing

[miokalia]

Ok: in no particular order:

Luca is just taking orders and acting on them. She was given the order to make the SOTO fleet leave. Until they directly contact the Anean fleet and say they are leaving, the fleet continues on.

They've already left, they notified the command of this. That's all that should be necessary there.

It is a well known fact that the Red Serpents are not allowed inside the borders of Aatuylva, first because they disregarded sovereignty and barged in, backed up by fighter-bombers, and second because their doctrines prevent them from wielding weapons and taking the Deep Patrol course required of all foreign agencies seeking to perform search and rescue and humanitarian aid missions. Aatuylva has not had experience dealing with NGOs, and only vaguely recognizes they exist because of what little knowledge they have about the World Wars, and Aatuylvan law is fairly...aggressive, when it goes to organizations and bodies not under government or military control, as seen with independent telecomms unions, the separatists, and other groups.

My opinion on resolving this issue is: That the RS doesn't go there.
RS is an aid group, and if regardless of if there's people that need aid, if a country points guns at NGO aid folks, then they usually don't try again until that government undergoes some kind of coup on it's own.

In regards to Miokalia's interaction with Aatuylva at this point:
Well it's simple: there is basically none.
Commercial airliners have been forced to avoid flying within 400 miles of Aatuylvan airspace on the concern that they could be shot down. As a result of Stidham's policies: he has made himself a persona non grata to the government. They do not trust him to comply with any generally accepted diplomatic protocols. The approach is avoidance, similar to N. Korea.


-------------------------------------------------------------


Now I have a minor issue with Salnai, in particular:

They're too big.
I know this is Aluez' NPC, but it's been positioned right next to me and they're size just doesn't work right there.


--------------------------------------------------------------


RE: relations with Aluez:

It might be beneficial to start up dialogue again now that the nano-hijack spell is over. Considering that Salnai DID fire upon a Miokalian ship and thus Miokalia has reason to be angry at Salnai too. The main reason why they're not doing anything about it is because of political and diplomatic reasons, specifically:
the determination that there is no apparent benefit to giving preference to either Aluez or Salnai's side of the issue.

But that's just a suggestion, and it's dependent on characters wether or not it should be pursued.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


I'm sorry I had to call out on that thread, but seriously, the stuff I was reading made almost no sense at all.

What it comes down to is: let's just rewind this back to before the RS showed up at ASE and continue from there. Aluez can continue their plan if they want, and everyone can just chill the hell out.

[The Anean Star Empire]

They've already left, they notified the command of this. That's all that should be necessary there.

Whose command? If I recall correctly it wasn't mine. Keep in mind, they are at DEFCON 1. Any orders at this point have to come from my command.

I can't react on what I don't have.

EDIT: My mistake, I reread the thread. Still, the orders hasn't been passed on on my end, so the fleet will keep moving.

...the stuff I was reading made almost no sense at all.

I agree with you completely at the time it happened. It was knee jerk responses.

However, since it happened, Cal and I have been working it out. If you take another look, all the posts from people such as DRL and Holmbergsvania had been removed and Cal and I worked out things more or less.

What it comes down to is: let's just rewind this back to before the RS showed up at ASE and continue from there. Aluez can continue their plan if they want, and everyone can just chill the hell out.

See, I don't want to rewind before that. I had my reasons for it and I would like it to stay as is.

[aatuylva]

Dec 31, 2010 0:04:50 GMT -5 miokalia said:

Ok: in no particular order:

Luca is just taking orders and acting on them. She was given the order to make the SOTO fleet leave. Until they directly contact the Anean fleet and say they are leaving, the fleet continues on.

They've already left, they notified the command of this. That's all that should be necessary there.

It is a well known fact that the Red Serpents are not allowed inside the borders of Aatuylva, first because they disregarded sovereignty and barged in, backed up by fighter-bombers, and second because their doctrines prevent them from wielding weapons and taking the Deep Patrol course required of all foreign agencies seeking to perform search and rescue and humanitarian aid missions. Aatuylva has not had experience dealing with NGOs, and only vaguely recognizes they exist because of what little knowledge they have about the World Wars, and Aatuylvan law is fairly...aggressive, when it goes to organizations and bodies not under government or military control, as seen with independent telecomms unions, the separatists, and other groups.

My opinion on resolving this issue is: That the RS doesn't go there.
RS is an aid group, and if regardless of if there's people that need aid, if a country points guns at NGO aid folks, then they usually don't try again until that government undergoes some kind of coup on it's own.

In regards to Miokalia's interaction with Aatuylva at this point:
Well it's simple: there is basically none.
Commercial airliners have been forced to avoid flying within 400 miles of Aatuylvan airspace on the concern that they could be shot down. As a result of Stidham's policies: he has made himself a persona non grata to the government. They do not trust him to comply with any generally accepted diplomatic protocols. The approach is avoidance, similar to N. Korea.

Let me spell out for you exactly what happened.
Several unknown helicopter contacts entered Aatuylvan airspace, claiming they were from an organization they did not know existed, shortly after an impact that caused earthquake-like tremors.
Said contacts identified themselves through their language as the same people who owned the spy planes that flew over Aatuylva the second they send a diplomatic envoy to Tinis.
The contacts are ordered to leave Aatuylvan airspace, or to proceed to an air station to be searched and approved.
Contacts tell Aatuylvan air command to suck it.
Contacts are then given support by several vtol fighter-bombers that cannot be attacked by Aatuylvan weapons because we had no seeking missiles yet.
Fighter-bombers are operating from a Cal fleet near Spendor, perhaps the same one that sent the spyplanes, since B&B and Redstar are within days of each other.
Attempts to threaten force against unknown contacts would result with the bombing of Aatuylva back into the Stone Age.

Ever since that moment, Aatuylva has had an intense and nigh irreparable hatred for the Cali, and the 'diplomats' they sent to fix things halfway made it worse, and the citizens themselves don't want anything to do with them at all. The SOTO fleet flying sorties over Aluez and near the border to rescue Andertol didn't help one bit, especially since we have missiles that can shoot you lot down now.

Looking at it from the Aatuylvan point of view, the Red Serpents were NOT an NGO when they barged in, they were an invasion force. The only reason they did not shoot them down THEN was the fighter-bombers that could've destroyed the leadership of Aatuylva and plunge it into civil-war with but a handful of missiles.

They can call Stidham 'persona non grata' all they want, but the Aatuylvans, while stubborn, do have very damn good reasons for their grudge against Cal and the Commonwealth's allies.

EDIT: If iirc they also sent several armed guards with the Red Serpents at the time, and the only thing that kept an international incident from occurring was that everyone was too busy fighting wraithwolves at the time to open fire on each other.

EDIT2: The Blood Pact, by the way, meant that Stidham was in fact bluffing Miokalia, by the way. One who breaks the Blood Pact is usually the target of an intense religious rage from the populous. So that would mean you and KZ are actually fine until you actually fire a shot or outright enter Aatuylva with military equipment. Cal, on the other hand...I'm not sure he's given you permission to use his people, even if only to reference them, during the Rifts incident. Last time you said 'SOTO fleet' he got all angry about it being a defensive only alliance and there being no authority to move them or something, so you guys need to talk that out before I know whether or not the Blood Pact was ever given to anyone on his side.

[Aluez]

Dec 31, 2010 0:04:50 GMT -5 miokalia said:

Now I have a minor issue with Salnai, in particular:

They're too big.
I know this is Aluez' NPC, but it's been positioned right next to me and they're size just doesn't work right there.

The colonies I can erase after the war, but the subcontinent? I don't know what to do with. I could try to move it up the coast a bit but I have no bloody clue how!

[Aluez]

• Salnai and Aluez descend into a cold, bitter war with one-another, starting with spying, recon on one-another, and boarder skirmishes. This goes on for 6 months.
  
• Talks open between Miokali and Aluezi leaders. Hopefully to repair and extend relations with them before something bad happens.
  
• War breaks out between PMC and Tyr government forces. Tyr turns into the first state to instate the Cossack act. Rebel-Government war rages for 7 months before spreading to other areas.
  
• Yuna and Bulzia declare themselves allies of Salnai. Unidentified aircraft begin to streak across the Aatuylvan skies, bombing Government forces before either being shot down or disappearing altogether.
  
• December 31st, 2 A.S.: Salnai declares open war on Aluez, but also requests that other nations mind their own *beep*ing business unless they wish to deal with an army bigger than China. If people do or do not, I do not know, you're welcome to join, or leave at your own accord!
  
• Aluez naturally throws up defenses from everywhere they could get it, and prepares for the worst.
  
• Alenia is burned to the ground from a Wehrmacht air raid composed of 10 bombers and 25 fighters
  
• Salnese ground forces charge the burned city, only to get beaten back by the surviving militia and military forces, as well as allied forces if present.
  
• Alenia instates the Cossack act. 5000 Cossacks from ages 10 to 42 are recruited.
  
• Cossacks march out to war. Several towns and bases are raided before they return. 40 Salnese people are killed in the raids, 49 are captured, and at least 200 are injured and later die of their injuries.
  
• Alenia is raided by Air again, only this time Skyships exchange fire. 3 Aluezi frigates are downed and crash into the trenches, killing dozens of soldiers. 2 Salnese dreadnoughts are destroyed, and later are dismantled for their armor and guns to add to the defenses of the city.
  
• Major ground assault occurs after defenses are repaired, at least 7000 soldiers assault the city again as artillery and rockets rain down from the skies.
  
• 3 A.S.: New Years. Several bombers raid Alenia again, only to be shot down from orbit by a new presence in orbit: an Annihilator III purchased from the Republic.
  
• Salnai starts popping satellites as a warning that any orbital weapons WILL be eliminated if used again
  
• A malfunction in the Weather Control Systems spawns a hellish winter over Aluez, which becomes a White Death scenario. Temperatures dip down into 8 below zero, obviously causing insane weather anomalies in the valley.
  
• Salnai sends its 55th Sky fleet to New Harrison Island. Reports of 100,000 troops are being amassed on the island. Further reports are posted up of a grand total of 190,000 troops amassed in Salnese territory.
  
• March, 3 A.S. to December 4 A.S.: White Death ends. An operation known only to the world as Operation: Hells Gate begins. All 190,000 Salnese troops are mobilized into Aluez. Bombardment from Skyships begins as troops kill ANYONE attempting to enter the rogue territory.
  
• Underground farms are established to ensure that the populace doesn't starve. Airdrops from other nations manage to sneak through in night from time to time.
  
• Christmas Eve, 4 A.S.: A group of black uniformed soldiers is reported to be in the Salnese blockade, massacring everything in sight. 3 hours later, a horde of Ghouls invades a Salnese supply base 3 miles away, killing most of it's inhabitance. Salnai sets off a 50 KT Airburst bomb over the camp, destroying the horde of undead.
  
• Bombardment continues. November 8th, 5 A.S.: 48 Aluezi troops lose their lives in an ambush of 1200 soldiers while marching toward a Salnese camp. Images are plastered across the globe that remind thousands of the same date in Vietnam.
  
• Operation Drawback begins. Cossacks begin actively raiding towns and camps left and right, killing whoever they dare cross paths with.
  

[The Union of Tinis]

I was going to move Salnai up coast a bit and tweak the terrain anyway. Historically it doesn't really make sense for it to be close to Miokalia.

I'm going to tentatively open the thread again. But do keep discussing plans here and in irc. There's no need for it to degenerate again. I'm not trying to be a mean mod here, just trying to insure that things make enough sense and that everyone is on board with what is going down. So if things start going down hill I will be up for intervening again.