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Post by Killer Zoids on Apr 17, 2007 17:17:10 GMT -5
After approval of the high speed rail system proposed to network Cal to Miokalia to Killer Zoids was approved by a 10 to 1 vote in Killer Zoids, they are sending a team of engineers to Inleef to assist with preparations and planning for the biggest international project the three countries have seen in years.
Killer Zoids has sent Engineers Lars Ronson, Netig Korvas, and Oronoc Tomu, each experts in mechanical engineering, tunneling and logistics to the start point of the big dig at Inleef.
Each country will discuss standards to be used in the development of the system throughout each country and various approaches to each countries issues. Cal's being long underwater tunneling, Miokalia's crossing of vast distance, and Killer Zoids' crossing over (under) the souther mountain chain.
Ronson stood at the airport with his colleagues, wondering if they were in the right area. "Uhh, guys, where is everybody? Do you think their flights have landed yet?" asked Lars Ronson, a middle height reddish colored vulpine.
"Well theres enough landing every few minutes, they'll be here soon enough. Why don't we go meet up at the beltway like we originally made plans," replied Oronoc Tomu, a tall, silver vulpine.
As they walked to the meeting area, Korvas commented to the others, "I don't know about you guys, but I can't freakin walk in these pants and this shirt keeps pulling at my fur." Netig Korvas is a greyish blue husky, of medium build. He is carrying a briefcase with papers and a portable computer.
"Well you can always go half-nude like back home!" Said Ronson jokingly.
"And look like a tourist? Fat chance!" replied Korvas.
Tomu laughed as well, "Yeah, but he's got a point!"
"No no, we're in another country, we have to make a good impression," said Ronson.
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Post by miokalia on Apr 17, 2007 19:10:14 GMT -5
An HTH team from Miokalia showed up, though not by plane, but rather by ferry.
They were quick to meet up with the KZ team and begin discussing technicalities while waiting for Cal's team.
The engineers unrolled their roll-up computers and began talking shop.
"A problem we're facing with running a high-speed line through NCR, is that the main line that runs between Galil, which would be the end-point of the submerged tunnel and Rohomeo, which is the most direct path... is that this line we have there is dual-gauge. It's three-rail. Supporting 1.4351 M standard int'l gauge and our peculiar "double-wide" 2 M gauge. That means the standard gauge passenger train can run on it, though not at it's high speed.", said Qugo Tompte, a Brown and blue Kuho Raptor, possibly of Emassen origin.
"The speed limit of the dual gauge lines is 180 KPH. That's 111 Mph. The speed limit on triple-gauge, or 'port gauge' lines is half that.
It will take some time to build a new dedicated line for high-speed transit parallel to the existing line.
We would like to have this whole bolalos up and running before we finish this parallel line though. Because as it is right now, it is sufficient, albeit slower.
These are old lines, they haven't been touched in a decade. Until we integrated the territory, they had only barely been taken care of. We still have yet to bring them up to the standard of the rest of the country.", said Hatdace Tycho, an orange and brown rex.
"Going through the mountains may be a phased project. At this time, there is one freight line running through the mountains, but it is a very low-speed-limit and it is frighteningly inefficient as it curves alot and it climbes and decends quite a bit.
It's a picturesque view the whole way... though impractical for our purposes here.
Though we can operate a secondary route to the Rohomeo-Liger City express segment. Using the old track, a Rohomeo-Macquerie-Liger City not-express segment.
I think DN currently runs along that route. This would make three lines running on one track in the meantime. DN's freight line, our existing Macquerie Zephiyr, and the new CAT and KTN traffic after the tunnel is complete.", said Corona Dysan, a short-haired mackerel tabby feline with a pair of rectangular, very thin-frame glasses.
"I'd rather not run so much on so little", said Hatdace.
"We can divert it around Macquerie until the new line is finished.", said Corona.
"The section isn't going to take very long to finish. It's a parallel line. We're expanding an already existing section of tracks to accomodate a higher-speed train.", said Qugo.
"Now we need to figure out how to get a high-speed line through or over the mountains and into KZ.
I am leaning towards "over" rather than "through", but that's because I like bridges.", said Hatdace.
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Post by Killer Zoids on Apr 17, 2007 19:43:38 GMT -5
"Now, we can just stick to rail-- its tried and true, but 110 mph for a commuter vehicle, even a train... Can't we squeeze more out of it?" said Lars Ronson, one of the Kazian engineers.
"What about implementing a 3rd, monorail track? Monorail or even Mag-lev would certainly lend itself to crossing mountainous terrain. The money saved from not having to blast or tunnel through the mountain would offset the price, " Oronoc Tomu said.
"Thats all well and good in a perfect world, but the HTH and CAL systems operate on 2 rails. KazTran would be the only one to benefit. I say we run two parallel tracks side by side, straight through this part of the mountain." Netig Korvas pointed toward a an area on the map. "See, if we cut it over this part, at 45 degrees from the main line, we could have a straight-shot right into the desert. With the proper concrete rails, we could probably crank the speedlimit up in that location to atleast 150mph, maybe more. That, or Miokalia could skirt the coast line with the lines.. Then it would only be a short skip and a jump to GS Berg." He looked over the map for a second. "That could cut off maybe 200 miles?"
"What about the zoids battle grounds there? We'd be cutting them in half practically. I doubt the MBA would approve."
They all paused for a few moments, then...
Ronson pointed at the map and said "Why even bother going through the mountains? We could always cross the gulf in these two spots." He pointed to the location in Miokalia where the mountains dropped below sea level. He drew 2 straight lines connecting that area with the outcroping and then back due east. "If we're using bridges again, we could crank the speed limit up yet again.... Say, whats the geography doing there? Is that ground stable or is it a subduction zone?"
"Yeah, but thats in Miokalia's territory. It would have to be their call, we could fund them partially, but I don't know how much money the Panel would want to dump into foreign infrastructure." replied Tomu. "I still don't like the idea of popping a tunnel out into the middle of the desert. There's existing rail infrastructure there, but its only small town commuter trains. The whole system would have to be re-fit."
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Post by miokalia on Apr 17, 2007 21:21:08 GMT -5
"The problem with maglev is volume, and versatility. It just doesn't have enough of these right now.
Additionally, one reason we're seeking to get this set up is so that our three nations can rely far less on air-travel, which is expensive and very energy inefficient.
Also there is the matter of freight. Which requires conventional rail to be efficient and economical. Being able to move freight over land between Cal and KZ without having to ship around the penninsula would be economical.
Plus we already use low-speed maglev inside our cities. It seems to be better suited to that.", said Hatdace.
"I would prefer that we try to avoid tunnels as much as we can. Tunnels are expensive and will complexify everything.
Running the high-speed line to GSBerg by skirting the coastline rather than Liger City would likely not require any tunneling. I think we'll do that, and just have the low-speed line continue up to Liger City, and of course, from there, over your existing rail lines, to GSBerg or anywhere else.
That way we don't need to run the track through the desert, or through any reserved areas.", said Corona.
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Post by Kingdoms of Cal on Apr 19, 2007 16:49:57 GMT -5
A small group of engineers approach the others. They were the calie group, one was a teerie (definitely female) that was dressed in a short skirt and a suit jacket (and little else), one was a scruffy looking dessert fox (also female) in similar dress and the last was a well dressed vulpine.
The group turn to look toward the vulpine who hands them a piece a paper. "This is to save problems in the long term as terms differer" she says
It reads: "Terminology
CAT: Calitua Aratually Transitory. CAT trains only run on CAT lines, minimum speed of 250 mph on standard gauger. No other trains run on CAT lines other than CAT trains or CAT equal.
MAT: Material Aratually Transitory MAT trains are the Freight equivalent of CAT trains, whoever CAT trains can run on MAT line though not vis-versa.
LAF: Localia Netoran Framarkie Local light rail and trams.
LAD Localia Naian Doinan Local freight and commuter passenger.
HST Heg Spanic Transitory High speed passenger rail
GRS Generallie Regualr Spacif Low speed rail
SRR Specific Rail Route Usually an air port link that does not connect to other parts of the network, or extreme rail lines, also point to point only.
Line A rail link between two points.
Track one or more lengths of material that can carry one train at a time as part of a line.
Point/Switch A means of trains to change between tracks and possibly lines.
Please add terms such as what HTH and KTN stand for and native terms."
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Post by miokalia on Apr 19, 2007 18:39:30 GMT -5
Terminology
HTH (Hacshier Tdomodane Hibice) HTH trains are all electric-drive using a combination of overhead power and internal power, usually from Ammonium Electrolytic Fuel or a Ceramic High-Pressure Cell. These passenger trains can run on any standard gauge rail, though they operate best in the presence of overhead lines. The usual speed on rail intended for high speed passenger service is 180-280 MPH. The highest test speed is 310 MPH on a specialized track.
DN (Dalrymple-Nandosu) The freight carrier. Locomotives are usually powered by Ceramic High-Pressure Cell or Ammonium.
DN Light Freight (DN Nar Glompf) High-speed and light freight
DN Double-Wide (DN Hindagrade) Low-speed, Oversize freight.
(Local metro and light rail systems are not directly connected by rail to the infrastructure involved in this, and so they have been ommitted from the list)
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Post by Killer Zoids on Apr 19, 2007 20:59:32 GMT -5
Terminology: KTN: KazTran: Kazian Transit Network: The entire rail system. Almost all trains are powered by a high-efficiency diesel-electric drive system which can (without load) exceed 290mph. A fully loaded passenger train is rated to run <150mph near cities, and 200-230mph on flat, straight runs. The exception are fully electrical locomotives, either through overhead power or 3rd rail power, which exist mainly in or around some cities.
All KTN rails, passenger and otherwise, are standard gauge.
Locomotives/cars are labeled with a letter in the front of their designation which denotes their use:
P: Passenger - People, baggage and related cars share the P designation. Locomotives designed to pull these cars are designated as P type.
C: Cargo - Box cars, covered solids transportation. Liquids under 500 gallons/container.
X: Freight - Open-top cars, flat beds. Examples: Timber, ore, coal, steel, vehicles.
W: Tanker - Transporting of liquids above 500 gallons/liquid. Also for very fine solids, which lend themselves to tankering.
Y: Pressurized Tanker - Carrying of substances which are gaseous but compressed/cooled into liquid state. Examples, Oxygen, Hydrogen, Propane, LPG.
S: Special Freight - Transporting of dangerous substances that require special treatment/housing. Like explosives or radioactive materials. Any train carrying an S type car must follow special speed limits and routes away from populated areas.
A: Special Passenger - Light load, low speed, single or double tied ONLY. A trains run throughout various metro areas, and can be linked to the rail network.
Specifying trains by call designation: An example might be a 1P06-5P12. With a passenger locomotive type 06 carrying 5 passenger cars of type 12.
A longer example might be: 2F01-28Cxx-5W10-9Xxx This train is powered by two freight class locomotives, carries 28 box cars, 5-10,000 gallon Tankers and 9 general freight cars.
============= The Kazian engineers greeted those from Cal. And each had something to say.
"The teams from Miokalia and Killer Zoids have been discussing an issue with a multi nation rail system--powering our vehicles.
Miokalian machines use ammonium which is not readily available (or acceptable) in Killer Zoids. Similarly, Killer Zoids machines run on diesel fuel of which a large enough infrastructure does not exist for in Miokalia. Before you came, we brain stormed an idea.
We wish to implement an electrical train system utilizing a 3rd power rail. Considering almost all of the track is either going to be brand new, or updated, we've decided it would be best to implement this strategy now. The benefits of electrical trains will pay for the added cost to build them in the near future.
Killer Zoids is in position to make the rail system completely green-- utilizing a tidal dam in the very north of the country. Miokalia gets most of its energy from geothermal, which provides cheap, clean and reliable energy as well.
To prevent wasted energy, we've developed a plan of switching stations that control which segments of the track receive electricity. When a train is in a segment, that segment is switched on. When it leaves, the power is shut off. These sub stations will be separated by n miles, as the power needs of the lines dictates. Electrical also lends itself to the major tunneling project from Inleef.
If a glitch occurs, the trains shall be provided with a back up system capable of storing enough energy to move the train beyond any malfunction sub stations.
To support the high speeds these trains will run, we cannot use timber ties. Facilitating our need for insulated rail, and smoother travel are concrete ties, elevated a few inches above the ground, separated and supported by gravel."
"We feel that developing a common standard for this project is the key. The 2 sets of rails (incoming and outgoing) for the CAT->HTH->KTN can be called the CHK Standard Lines. Only CHK approved vehicles may run on them."
"The added cost of a new standard to Cal would be miniscule, considering the Cal section of track is by far the shortest."
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Post by Kingdoms of Cal on Apr 21, 2007 15:23:02 GMT -5
Much to the surprise the Teerie waves the vulpine back, she was the head of the group. Her name was Fa and was the head of the CAT network and a very well qualified civil engineer.
"Third line tech is probably superior to over head line tech. The problem is if you keep the third line charged, people and animals get killed and well it is expensive. If you don't keep them charged, they develop legs. Leaving large amounts copper in the middle of deserted territory is a gift to thieves.
As for the CAT network, well that and the bulk of the Calie rail network, use overhead lines. It's cheap and efficient and as a nation that prides itself on it's rail network, we have tried most things...."
The scruffy vulpine interrupts "Third rail tech is very expensive, the ware and tare is a problem over long distances. It works well with LAF and LAD systems, but doesn't work well over distance. It can't deliver the power needed for heavy freight either with out arching."
"Thank you Jay" the teerie continues "I know few nations have the trains that the CAT network requires, so I have been authorized to offer both of your nations access to CAT tech. Providing you agree to the use of CAT lines for high speed travel. I believe that we are the only nation that has trains that can cruise at three hundred.
By cat tech I am including lines and such.
As for the submerged tunnel due to the physics of air pressure speeds will have to be limited to about two hundred m.p.h.
On that subject, I hope miokalia will not object to the construction of five escape platforms and off shore wind farms to provide the power requiered to run the tunnel.
As a side note, beside the tunnel we also will lay an interconnect to your power grid." Fa ends.
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Post by Killer Zoids on Apr 21, 2007 16:28:33 GMT -5
Lars Ronson interjected, "Well, what do your CAL trains run on? If its some funky liquid fuel or nuclear, theres no way that will work. Electrical is the only thing that our three nations have in common." "I agree with the issue of a copper 3rd rail," said Netig Korvas, "which is why its not to be made of copper! The third rail is simply another hunk of track, with a caster or a sweep that is dragged across it. The power is then fed through the engine and out to the other tracks for form a ground. Its not at all dis-similar to how it works in over head power lines. Did you ever notice, theres only one? The ground or neutral is constructed at the transformer, and the other connects through the load. If the thieves want steel that bad, whats to stop them from tearing the others up too? Regardless, we could ditch the third rail and just use the existing 2 for our energy needs. Phased high current AC can run through the steel no problem. This would certainly cut back on wear and tear as well." "Your 200mph limiting speed is ridiculous. If instead of trying to submerge a pre-constructed tunnel and just bore the lines though bedrock, you could easily put in a 3rd, smaller pressure/vacuum release tunnel, cross linked between the inbound and out bound lanes. You'd also save a vast portion of your mountain range and the costs associated with shipping and assembling all of the segments. But this center tunnel could also be used for maintenance and rescue." If the tunnel was made wide enough, you could avoid the issue all together," voiced Oronoc Tomu. "Heres a sketch of the design idea." He hands the Cal engineers this paper.
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Post by Kingdoms of Cal on Apr 25, 2007 17:43:25 GMT -5
Fa smiles "We have be using electric power for longer than anyone in the fed to run our trains. The CAT, MAT and the bulk of our network use electric over head tech. We thought you could have figured that out, but I always allow for language problems.
As for the idea of sending power down the lines, well. One it would be massively inefficient or would require very soft lines that could not carry heavy freight or fast trains. Two It would require both the Calie and miokaliaen networks to be altered at massive cost."
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Post by Killer Zoids on Apr 25, 2007 18:44:45 GMT -5
"But over head electric looks like crap." Said Ronson bluntly, "sure, this project is about linking our countries, but its also about showing our technological prowess, and ability to compromise. Using something as age-old as over head lines pains every design-oriented bone in my body. Killer Zoids compromised with Miokalia over the use of diesel vs. ammonium powered trains, we came up with electric. We've both decided overhead would not do, so what other option is there that could satisfy everyone?"
"Don't forget, more than 60% of the rail to be implemented here will be installed brand new. The cost of doing 3 rails compared to 2 is hardly an issue. Surely, we don't expect all of Cal to modify their existing infrastructure, but why not a dual power source? Only the CAT trains to be used on the inter-national lines need to be easily be outfitted with a dongle on their underside to catch the power. If you'd like to use over head in your own country as you've been, go for it." Tomu was looking disgusted at this point.
"I have one thing to add." Added Korvas "Did you consider that the cost of adding overhead infrastructure to ALL of the rail to be deemed international; the time to build and future maintenance is just as costly, if not more so than simply running a 3rd rail? If you're concerned about sub-stations, in either case, you need just as many--making them supply power above or below is trivial."
"I actually like the idea of being able to switch from overhead to 3rd rail power. It would certainly add far more flexibility to the intercity lines, connected with the CHK."
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Post by miokalia on Apr 25, 2007 18:57:11 GMT -5
Qugo rolled his eyes and said,
"We're redoing track anyways. Just to meet Cal's high conventional track speed. Adding a third rail would be an afterthought on the new line, adding the capability to our existing locomotives would be a matter of simply installing the casters on already very modularized platforms.
Overhead is cheaper though. Albeit: unsightly perhaps."
"Okay, this is going nowhere. I have a solution to the safety concerns about 3rd rail, but I'll get to that in a bit. Using both 3rd rail and overhead caternary is not very hard to do. These are simple pieces of equipment which can be easily mounted to anything. So why not have all the locomotives for this line between us be equipped for both? Problem solved. AND I think the gloatation is alienating the KZ people here. We've all read the stats. Yes, you were the first to do fast electric trains. But KZ could gloat about their highway system, I'm sure they're the first to do it at the speed they do. And we could of course gloat that we were the first to use vehicles of any kind that were not powered, directly or indirectly by a carbon-related fuel.
Now CAT people: I would hope you assume there is a reason why we're not immediately capable of running trains at 300 MPH across the desert. It's not that we don't have the stuff to do it, necessarily. It's that we have yet to have a reason to do it. To push a train, no matter how aerodynamic it is and no matter how efficient the drive system and motors are, to slightly under Mach 0.5 consumes a considerably larger magnitude of energy than to run the very same train, across the very same expanse at a speed of 200 MPH. And 200 MPH is not slow.
The reason why we go up to 250 in metropolitan areas is because it's not sustained for a long time.
The limiting agent here, isn't availibility of energy, it's the fact that the more energy we have to put on overhead lines or third rail over an expanse of hundreds of miles, the less efficient the entire thing will be. And we don't like throwing energy away.
However, if we can reduce the air pressure, the 300 MPH can be accomplished with significantly less power input.", said Hatdace.
Corona then looked at him and then chuckled and said, "I know where this is going."
Hatdace continued, "On Dincota, the solution to the problem of air pressure limiting the efficiency of trains at high speeds was solved by reducing the amount of air in front of the train. There are two ways to do this: 1. build a jet turbine on the front of the train which would make the overall efficiency worse because it would consume a great deal of power trying to move air faster than it's coming into it (at 300 MPH)... or 2. Do what we did. Put the track at a higher altitude.
This doesn't necessarily mean we will have to pressurize the train. But a height of 1000 feet across a desert which is 3500-4500 feet above sea level will make a significant difference in forward air pressure at 300 MPH.
Oh, by the way, this isn't a suggestion for you guys to implement as much as it is a statement of what we will likely do across our desert in some places.
These systems, because of their difficulty to maintain regularly, will have to use third rail, though at 1000 feet up, the risk of electrical accidents involving stuff shorting out that third rail is impossible."
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Post by Killer Zoids on Apr 25, 2007 21:50:27 GMT -5
"Across valleys and ravines, I can understand the use of such tressels, but 1000 feet in the air?? For large distances you'd be talking about building a heavy weight, at-the-mercy-of-weather transportation system. What could happen in the event a train had to stop quickly for some reason? The compression force caused by the deceleration of the train would require EXTREMELY tough rigging."
"The issue with air is important though.." The three of the Killer Zoids engineers scratched their heads thinking for a few moments, when Oronoc Tomu noticed a random group of people walk by. "Wow.. clothes are actually good for something!" The others looked at him funny, he was looking at one fur walk by with a polo shirt, spiked shoes and dressy pants. He was dragging a cylindrical bag behind him, with various implements sticking out.
"Golf balls," said Tomu. "Ahh! Hes right!" said Ronson, hitting his forehead with his paw. "Yeah, golf balls have dimples on them so that they're more aerodynamic. The dimples cause compression in the air rushing over them, which causes the faster moving air to provide less friction over the surface, and therefore, let the ball slice through the air more effectively. We could simply dimple the fron surface of the locomotive and reduce our drag by a nice fat margin!"
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Post by Kingdoms of Cal on Apr 29, 2007 17:35:28 GMT -5
Fa smiles "Well the dimples idea does work on small objects, but unfortunately it doesn't work on large objects so well. If appearance is that importance we will place a third rail designed by KZ and adapt out international trains to use it in tandem with over head lines.
I have grave doubts as to how a conductor that close to the ground will not earth. It will arch in wet conditions and well over sea water on metal bridges, I will not explain the problem.
Tunnels are vastly expensive, especially threw bed rock, as we have six lines from inleef. one CAT, one MAT and a GRS line (each have two tracks to ensure service), and obviously there are two tunnels, one eastbound one westbound, containing three lines each.
We did the line to inleef so we know what we are doing it doesn't matter that much how we do it providing it is done in time.
Oh double wide will be supported, as will be any train MAT, CAT or GRS compatible."
Fa smiles "Thanks for letting us have the platforms needed, that saves us time and ensures safety, and the link to your grid will work. With luck we will have a pump storage system set up by then."
Fa Grins "We are good at joined up thinking, it's part of the drewen irrigation project, the bigger and deeper the hole...quarry the better.
On a different subject what voltage/ampage are we planning on using?"
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Post by Kingdoms of Cal on Jun 10, 2007 7:52:48 GMT -5
Despite the ongoing discussions Cal announced the start of construction of the submerged tunnel to Miokalia as hurricane season was over and the large construction ships were vulnerable to such natural events.
The first of the five platforms was prefabricated and taken to it's site and placed in position. It's eight wind turbines were to be used to provide power to the trains and also use any excess to send power to both Miokalia and Cal. As usual the Calie plan was over engineered and cheap clean energy would be very likely to be provided to both nations as well as the tunnel there was also a degree of "well we may as well while we're out there" thinking.
The first prefabricated sections were being brought from cal and began to be being sunk to the gulf's bottom. The inner tunnel sections were also inserted into the outer casing and welded together by a small swam of ROVs then underwater setting concrete was injected between the outer and inner casing to ensure a watertight seal.
The 100 meter long sections were floated out using large ballast tanks attached to either side. These tanks were flooded when the reached their designated area and using larger ROVs guided down to take their position on the sea bed. Once there the ballast tanks were detached and refilled with compressed air and recovered to be reused.
Construction was beginning to pick up pace as the operation slowly got into the swing of things and the large flotilla of ships and one semi submersible platform were slowly moving across the gulf. Leading were three trench blasting ships that were surrounded by muddy colored water as the sand they displaced drifted in the sea. They were being closely followed by either a small number of ocean going tugs that were moving the outer sections or a group of heavy lift floating cranes that were inserting the inner tunnel casing. Then the semi-submersible platform that was being used as a base for the many ROVs that were being used for welding amongst other things, bringing up the rear was one of the concrete bulk carriers and two of the concrete injection vessels.
Like all major projects there likely to be a few accidents and one had already happened. No one was hurt but one of the ROVs was likely to be having an extend stay on the project having not got out before the concrete had been injected. As it didn't affect the structural integraty of the tunnel it had been viewed easier to just leave it there.
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