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Post by The Union of Tinis on Mar 27, 2007 18:18:45 GMT -5
Again after the frequent exchanges of words between the Tinisians Krel breaks off to say to Salato in her native language, "I would be most appreciative to make a visit to your bird for the night. Multek is presently explaining to our hosts, that my work here is done and that I am no longer needed for any diplomatic discussions unless called upon." And in fact Multek was saying exactly this.
Multek was also adding in his words to Onyx, "Waldo is excessivly curious to hear your side on how all this began actually. Why is this nation intent on attacking you?"
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Post by Kingdoms of Cal on Mar 27, 2007 19:21:36 GMT -5
Salato smiles and says in her own tough "Perhaps you are right. I do have other reasons to be here, however the longer I am here the more I believe that turning them our way is pointless, they never will. Give them the radioactive stuff and get them out of Cal is all I want now."
--
Back home a message is sent to a miokaliaen organization that the miokalia do not acknowledge "Your encryption has been cracked, you do have a code word to inform your people?
This information has been passed to our people and the org....others. What you believe to have been safe is not. The organics from here on out will not trust you. Assume that they will not pass information to your kind until you have solved this issue, Lisa will cease the use of her drone as discretely as possible.
How we know this should not be asked, but we provide evidence"
A packet containing everything said that was supposable safe was included from not so much an untraceable source in Cal, as most of the routers in cal. Each packet arrived perfectly in time.
A similar message is sent to Naraemat and Tinis containing messages they thought were private from their embassies. All carrying the stamp(key) of the Erenmoren government.
---
Salato says clearly "The radio active material is all yours and I would be thankful if you left thack, it's no more radioactive than it is naturally, I will take my leave in the morning if this is not a problem?
Please do both with haste and discretely as I do not know how long the parliament back home can be kept in check They tend to spend a lot of there time trying to court popularity at my expense and, well with what how things are being reported back home I suspect me being here will be giving them ammunition to use against me."
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Post by miokalia on Mar 27, 2007 20:39:34 GMT -5
Blinn began attempting to find a way to reply to Cal's... exotic way to send a message. The Kairoku cycle was not done yet. And technicalities had to be worked out for the steganographic components. Being one of the few OR-class units in existence, Blinn was to be a part of that.
----
Inside a cavernous space, lined with crystalline components of the CA underground, the OR-class leaders discussed the private matters of the Kaiyroku.
"The base-6 quantitative encoding is now accessible. It's only a matter of time before they push through the encryption... a very short matter of time.", said H4TC4.
Blinn said, "Base-3 storage has already become common knowledge to those who study this. That base-and-raster mathmatical hardware transmission as a whole is not very safe anymore."
#H4TC4 said, "Base-9 would be too obvious a replacement. The 60.10 steganographic standard hasn't been broken yet though. Perhaps we should extend it to the kernal."
#23K4 said, "That would be foolish. Then the Kernal would use the exact same transmission encoding as the ephemera encoding. If they decode one, they decode all of it. Then we might as well be open-source."
Blinn said, "Then we'll be on the road to becomming a comodity. Base-13? or would that also be too obvious?"
#23K4 said, "Prime numbers are the FIRST place these Comp-Sci-trained people look. Prime numbers are too obvious."
Blinn said, "It's time to add a layer then. We need to add a layer to the steganography. Mathmatical steganography."
#H4TC4 said, "The 60.10 steganography... is something no one has ever come close to decoding. Those CS folks see it as nothing more than vast blocks of functionless, idiotic or random code. Somehow they still haven't broken it because they're looking at it wrong.
I fear they may look at it right."
Blinn said, "Unlikely. The people looking at this are too specialized to be able to pull from enough disciplines to interpret 60.10 from the outside-in.
These guys are looking for fractals in something that only loosely *looks* like a fractal.
It's like trying to reduce a classical renaisannce-era painting to a graph of a single function. It's just not something their math is capable of doing."
#H4TC4 said, "If we switch to a phased transmission, then it will make one packet look like three different ones. Then whatever they can decode will be so far out of context... they wouldn't possibly have any hope of decoding it.
Though, at the expense of our computing efficiency. Phasing the transmissions would add... another process to everything.
We would need to expand the power of the CA."
#23K4 said "It's 30C here in the mathco. This diamond will work up to 110 before reliablity becomes a problem... But heat *is* inefficiency and what about expandibility? We have to think far ahead. Far ahead of photon-computing, like the Acta are using.
Cellular processing handles the steganography faster and more reliably than any centralized system can. But we need to increase the throughput between parts somehow."
Blinn said, "... perhaps it is time we use the Dincotian coaxial technology to increase the speed of the busses?"
"It is something we have considered before... we have tried it sucessfully. But never had the need to implement it.
We're already using Carruthian fields on the non-q cores.
I suggest we line the Non-q cluster with a few more feet of brass too. That's critical stuff there. That cluster needs to be able to survive EM shock as powerful as a solar gamma-burst.
Okay.
-Implementing another layer of 60.10 steganography -Implementing a thicker and multi-phased variation of 60.10 for the Kernal -Installing Dn nodes between cores, building a node-table -Implementing pucon-based bus transmission between mathcos. -Shifting all the Q-work over to the wider busses. -Expand the non-Q busses to accomodate the extra steganography work -Physically thicken the Faraday box around the non-q cores -Send the update using 4 phases of transmission. Using only 60.10 steg. Absolutely no quant, because that can be broken with nothing more than raw computational power.
Okay, so these are the major details of the agenda so far."
"We approve", said #H4TC4
----
"Well, we really should get on with the tour then?", said Phong nervously as everyone seemed to be preoccupied.
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Post by Erenmor on Mar 28, 2007 13:45:14 GMT -5
With no questions for the Council from the visitors, the delegation returned to the floor they'd boarded the elevator from. There, a Wraith was already waiting, a rather unusual sight without its cloak - some 7 feet tall, quite lanky, with smooth and featureless plating polished to a mirror finish, with a likewise featureless mirror face-plate.
"Miss Salato, this will be your guide to your craft... and of course anyone else wishing to depart from the group for the moment," Onyx explained. The brief explanation done, he led those delegates that wished to continue the tour away down one of the corridors.
***
"Now, to answer questions..." Onyx sighed as they walked. "Our Network, mister Marcello, is basically the term we use for our collective machine minds... While I take delight in showing guests around the framework we've made for it, to properly interact with it would require specific implants. We've some non-implant simulators for those who're content just to look, but they hardly hold a candle to the real thing."
"As for why Morskoj has a grudge, I'm afraid it comes down to the simple reason of old wars that never really died down," Onyx shook his head briefly. "To summarise the history: I arrived here as something of a refugee, wishing to find some quiet, pristine corner of the world to settle down. The original inhabitants were less than welcoming. Since I was running out of supplies for the few families that had chosen to accompany me, I was unable to move on to a new place and instead we set up a small coastal base. Morskoj, who at the time had a lot more land to their name, didn't react well. Then they abducted one of the people who came with me. When you've less than 30 people with you, the loss of even one is unacceptable, I'm sure you understand."
"Admittedly, our methods then were somewhat less delicate. We rescued the prisoner and obliterated the small force we encountered..." Onyx paused for a moment. "I had brought with me a sizeable group of sentinels, so we weren't entirely defenceless. Even back then I made a point of doing what I could to keep my wards out of harm's way... Resuming: The attack, as they saw it, prompted them to retaliate. Admittedly, they had more than enough troops then to overwhelm us many times over, so for our survival we had to resort to weapons harmless to our own troops, but exceptionally effective against organic beings. Eventually we were able to take from them a stretch of the coastline and the mountain foothills... We used what remained of their cities to construct our own cities and built fortifications along the border with the territories that Morskoj still controlled. It has been well over 400 years since then and they still haven't given up on trying to reclaim these lands."
"I suppose in light of the more recent events it starts to make more sense, though. The Servants of Light that have been giving us all such grief in recent months used to be the dominant power in Morskoj. We'd assumed they were wiped out during the war, but apparently we weren't thorough enough. I am assuming presently they'd been goading the people into the raids they've been launching every couple of years since the war..."
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Post by miokalia on Mar 28, 2007 17:52:36 GMT -5
Phong waited for the Calie to get out of earshot before saying in candor to Onyx, "Despite the tragedy of it, perhaps you would have been better off gutting that culture completely 400 years ago. Maybe consolidating the conflict would have resulted in less total.
I waited to say this because... It doesn't sound very nice but it's kinda true."
"Their culture did a great disservice to the people. To train people to fight for something like a dead culture is to sentence those innocent to death.
It's not like they were fighting for freedom. I highly doubt they even had much of a concept of it.", said the First Lady.
"You agree? I wouldn't expect that from a anthropology and art person like you.", said Phong, "I thought you might say something along the lines of 'all cultures deserve respect' or something like that"
"I don't want to, but It's... kind of true", she replied.
Tdentaku then said, "Well... in application: only *most* cultures are worth respecting. Some just cause trouble... and really... some cultures don't really contribute positively to civilization and intelligence anymore like they may have in the past.
I mean, what have these Morskoj produced? Are they this literary, art-loving or philosophically inquisitive culture which is trying to be more free than the nation to the south? Nope. They are not.
Their people are miserable, trained to lay their lives down to defend what? What are the defending? They are not defending real freedom, What besides just a name are they willing to die for? Really.
It's a hollow loyalty."
"I apologize. We're kind of... very hardcore cultural relativists.
It's a good thing that Salato went to her plane, because the Calie don't seem to like it when we say something pragmatic and... politically incorrect like that.", said Phong
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Post by The Union of Tinis on Mar 28, 2007 19:49:47 GMT -5
Multek was doing his best to listen in. He and Waldo seemed slightly more at ease now that Krel had left to join the Cali delegation.
"In some respects I'd have to aggree. If they are throwing their lives away to promote something that was both foolish enough to fear the unknown of our host and to continue the fight after its obvious they are unable to win, then perhaps the death of their way of life would be a boon to the world. But on the other paw, perhaps there is something we are unable to see about this culture. That despite the derangements of its leadership that underneath is something unique that if given the chance to come out could lift them up to be a positive force in this world. For perhaps the reason we haven't heard of any great books coming from their lands is because they have a strong oral tradition. And perhaps the reason their warriors are so willing to die is not because they fully believe what their leaders tell them but they see it as the only way to accomplish anything. If accomplishments are the only worth they feel, and that is the only one open to them, its... rather sad. But if they were to be infected with another way to attain the accomplished title they would jump at the chance.
"Even with cultural relativism, its hard to discard an entire people so easily as its almost impossible to know enough about ones enemy to appreciate their good points. And perhaps if there was no reason to not be enemies any more these things would be more visible.
"I don't think I'm alone as far as Tinisians go whom feel this way. If such a belief that there can be good in one's enemies wasn't a slim majority a little over fourty years ago then Tinis probably wouldn't exist today. Instead it would be refugee camps still and frequent blood baths."
Waldo looked as if he wanted a translation. Multek told him in Tinisian, "I'll tell you later." Returning his attention to the group, Multek continued briefly, "So perhaps I should commend Onyx for not whipping these Morskoj out. Beyond the excess of bloodshed, which continues today, those of their people who may not want to fight still exist. And if we could find any way to end the fighting, perhaps we'd have some new friends. Friends who may have something to teach us. Or perhaps not. Its a gamble always. But for the sake of all civilization it may be wise to take gambles from time to time."
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Post by Erenmor on Mar 30, 2007 14:44:36 GMT -5
"Admittedly my first choice would've been to wipe the lot of them out as well, but back then... Well, let's just say I was persuaded to do otherwise. We continued to take their territory until we found a suitably defensible natural area and stopped there. Since then, I have to say that the Morskoj raids have had their use. Every decade or so we get to test out any new weapons and upgrades, our warriors hone their skills... In a way they've become essential to our path of ascendance," Onyx explained. "Not to mention we put all that material they leave behind after each raid to good use."
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Varro
New Member
Knowledge and Conquest
Posts: 45
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Post by Varro on Apr 1, 2007 19:06:46 GMT -5
"Mr. Phong, the thought that someone of your stature would be afraid to speak your mind, political or not, seems completely unacceptable to my mind." said Marcello candidly. "Especially towards one you do not seem keen to flatter."
"I do not see anything wrong with the idea of killing the lot to be done with it, because it seems like a completely sound idea. If the source of the problem is removed, all others will cease to occur. I do not think it is the best idea. It would be a tragedy if it would have to transpire, but there is nothing wrong in the idea itself."
"I do not know much about these 'Morskoj' except what I have heard in the past few hours. It would seem all the raids and the hate stem from the sort of fanaticism that permeates the minds of the less enlightened, magnified by what to them is a great injustice. You came, refused to leave, then took their land. They forget who or what started it, but in that type of mind runs only the thought that they, others, will pay for everything that has been done."
"It seems completely silly that so often others do not want to take the time to re-examine the core of their thought. I'm sure if they did, and honestly sought to identify what at this point is good for them and what is bad, then they would seek some peace and settle into a culture which produces. Nobody seems to like to change in that manner, and the task to change others minds is seemingly impossible. I suppose, however, that it matters how hard one works for it than the actual result that is sought."
Marcello takes a moment to catch his breath from his monologue before readdressing Onyx. "So, continuing about the net, you say you think as a collective. How can you make out an individual if all thoughts and experiences are shared?"
-=-=-=-
After General Salinas, Salato Eye, and who ever else had returned to Cal's vessel had settled at that area, Salinas begins to display a short sign of annoyance and regret at coming. "Madame Salato, perhaps now that we are here, you could inform us as to why we are required in private. I believe you mentioned something about distrust, or being used?"
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Post by Erenmor on Apr 2, 2007 16:05:35 GMT -5
"We share thoughts, mister Marcello, but the sources of those thoughts are more or less individual. Two different Sky-Eye drones might come to completely different conclusions from watching the same rock sitting there for the same few months, so to speak. We share our ideas and experiences and can act together flawlessly if the situation calls for it, but outside of those situations we encourage individual thought and interpretation. Generally it has served to improve our overall condition thus far, that much we can all agree on," Onyx explained with a smile.
"Actually the Net itself in its present state came to be when a few organic minds transcended to our way of being. They needed a world of sorts to interact with when they were outside a shell as much as they needed a wide range of sensory data while in their shell to maintain mental integrity. In a more metaphysical sense, you might call it an alternate plane of existance, overlapping with what is commonly considered the real, physical world."
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Post by Kingdoms of Cal on Apr 2, 2007 16:22:01 GMT -5
Salato smiles "You see unlike you people my lot are a tad paranoid about intelligence. We had an angle up there, and what the Erenmoren have been telling you is not adding up.
That is what I have noted.
For one: who in their right mind invites foreign delegates to a nation when they know when they are expecting an attack, come on they should have known about it weeks in advance?
They are more than capable of such intelligence.
They must have an alterer motive, this was picked up. Well let us look at certain information that has come to my people.
It is becoming clear."
Salato nods and a number of tablet like machines are passed around the others. What is notable is the lack of a drone, it had been quickly shut down and stowed in the hold of the craft.
The tablets spark up quickly and show an aerial photo mosaic of the north of Erenmor and it's border.
"Don't worry food will be here soon, spot the problem with the idea of an attack from the north?" Salato asks
"This photo mosaic is from less than fifteen minutes back, I suspect one of you will find a flaw as to the Erenmoren view of events." she continues.
Time passes as the numerous dishes are placed around the low coffee table. The guests are informed they are all vegan.
General Salinas asks "Where is the enemy force?"
Salato replies "That is the question, their doesn't seem to be one. From our intel they have almost enough power to raid a drinks cabinet...well unless it was mine, then they don't.
It appears from the massing of the forces on the Erenmoren border by the Erenmor they plan to commit genocide and invent a new enemy. Well every good police state needs an enemy."
Salato smile "Well that's what I can see there, they have cracked the encryption used by the miokalia so speak here but your encryption codes have also been compromised. I have been informed. For me to be informed this suggests that who ever they are back home that do these things don't like this."
General Salinas looks more than a little shocked.
"What you have heard here you keep in your heads, it is the only safe place for this kind of information around here. Do not commit it to electronic media or speak until you know you are safe." Salato says.
Salato then turns to General Salinas and asks "How would you intrepid this current tactical information, no offensive force to the north but three offensive spears to the south? The massive uses of force, that is not an invasion force it is an annihilation force. Perhaps I and the warlords back home are wrong?"
Salato muses "Perhaps to have the leaders of most of the major powers up here, away from their intelligence networks to approve their actions and then present a fate accomply? Might have been the plan?....but that's just me thinking."
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Post by miokalia on Apr 3, 2007 12:24:22 GMT -5
"Now Onyx. would you mind telling me why it is that none of the intelligence requests I've sent home, though carrier signal, are not getting there? Normally I would have received a response by now.
I was taking your word for it on the matter of your northern neighbor, but I can't seem to confirm it because the signal is being blocked.
Mind telling me why that is?
I assume it is something to do with the structure... Am I correct in my assumption or is there something else going on", said Phong.
Esoure and Tdentaku became very quiet
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Post by Erenmor on Apr 3, 2007 16:14:54 GMT -5
"Actually, it's mainly to do with two facts: we are underground with a whole lot of rock interfering with standard transmissions, and our long-range communications array is nearby - you wouldn't believe the interference that thing gives off," Onyx explained.
"It does have the added benefit of partially jamming anything without sufficient boosting, but that's not its intention. We've a number of amplifying arrays and relays for getting our signals out, you're welcome to make use of them..."
"I have to ask, though... I'm curious, really. What intelligence information were you requesting?"
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Varro
New Member
Knowledge and Conquest
Posts: 45
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Post by Varro on Apr 6, 2007 1:41:39 GMT -5
Salinas does nothing but look downwards in thought for a minute before gazing back at Salato and shaking his head. "I do feel the same way as you, but understand you have set me in a difficult position that I had hoped to avoid by investigating myself.
"You see, it is now a matter of trust with your state against Erenmor. On one hand, your state is an ally and I should trust the information you have with exception to its credibility. If your information is inaccurate, and a false accusation is made of Erenmor, then it will be much harder to establish any ties with it. For all that I can know by only hearing, you may have photographed the wrong mountainous snowscape.
"On the other hand, I am not quick to withdraw trust before it has been given a chance. They are our host, and for now I must believe in their good intentions.
"As for their increased movements to their south, consider where they are. Any army of theirs moving strictly along the ground will be identified before it can make any surprise attack. They would be at quite a strategic disadvantage if they chose to assault in such a way. I have two thoughts in mind. The first is that they may wish to secure an expansion. The land to their south, as well as north, is unclaimed, so it is not beyond possibility that they are merely preparing to spread across an area."
Salinas pauses and gives a short lived smile as he contemplates the ceiling. "Then the second thought. There could have been a small error in information, and everyone has had the wrong cardinal direction in mind.
"In any case, there is only one sensible course we should pursue. We should ask in a way to see it with our own eyes, and have the matter settled."
-=-=-=-
Marcello, at the thought of interference, has taken out his cell. "I think I can see what you're saying. I don't seem to be getting any reception.
"Now, with the net. Individuals are defined by their experiences. When they have similar, or in this case identical experiences, what separates them is their personality as set by their genetic data. Nurture and nature, as they are referred. Everyone one here, as you have said, has the same experiences as shared precisely through the net, and as well are constructed beings, which can be built in the same manner as the last. What I still cannot see is that if two of the same kind, having immediately the same experiences, could see anything at all different from the other of the same situation.
"This only is possible because of the unique situation here, as I see it. The precision of the machine, the net, youth, isolation. The Malych, as I have seen, exhibit a uniqueness in each that I believe even if all experiences were to be shared among them, their individual natures would still shine through. I cannot yet see this in Erenmor yet, and it leaves in my mind an image of uniformity that is unsettling."
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Post by Erenmor on Apr 6, 2007 18:49:10 GMT -5
Onyx actually laughed quietly for a brief moment. "Mister Marcello, how many of our machine citizens have you actually spoken to?" he asked.
Without waiting for a reply, he continued, "I realise we might seem as a single massive army all in the hand of one individual... and that's true, for a given value of true. But just because you don't see Sentinels singing drunken songs in pubs or lounging around doesn't mean we lack individuality. We simply all take our purpose quite seriously, we dedicate ourselves to the task assigned to us at any given moment."
"As for the matter of experiences, allow me a metaphor to explain... we all read the same books, but each of us writes our own. In other words, we do share each other's experience, yes. But that is a secondary, however vital, loop. Each entity's first-hand experience is what truly shapes them into what they'll become in the future."
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Post by miokalia on Apr 7, 2007 12:14:37 GMT -5
Phong ignored the statement, but could not avoid taking it as a compliment.
"I was just attempting to get a view of the north, where you say there is an army amassing. So I might be able to discuss the matter inteliently...
but you probably know that."
"For security reasons, I'm afraid I must be leaving soon.", said 36 after his long apparent silence.
A conversation began between Phong and 36 silently.
"You can be in multiple places at once can't you? Or is there something else going on?", said Phong.
"I don't know if there much else I would need to gather from them. The common AIs up here are... network emergent. Similar to the Acta but just older.
I suppose I can't hold that against them. We had external intervention.", said 36.
"Don't just dismiss them like this though. Even if you're diassappointed that they aren't more like you.
Be nice please.", said Phong.
"I'm going to need a second shell for something back south. I"m not leaving, but there are some people I need to talk to.", said 36.
"As long as you don't leave here yet. You can lock down though.
You're locked down aren't you?", said Phong
"Very locked down. I'm running on silicon service only right now, I got the carbon offline. There was an attempt to read my core a while ago during a routine scan I suppose. So I dished up some numerical garbage and then shut the whole bolalos down.", said 36.
"I see.", said Phong.
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