Decision

[The Union of Tinis]

I have locked the thread "Setting up the Grid". Upon rereading it and the posted rules in the RP forum, I found it dangerously close to rp forum rule violation.

As the rules state, if you are going to attack another nation, please following the following rule:

'‘Nation1’ wishes to attack/invade ‘Nation2.’ ‘Nation1’ sends ‘Nation2’ a private message OOCly (out-of-character) inviting ‘Nation2’ to RP a war with them. If ‘Nation2’ agrees, they start/own a thread called ‘War: Nation1 Attacks Nation2!’ The board moderators can tell just by looking at who owns the thread that this RP is OK with all concerned.'

If personal messages have been exchanged between Ixnill and Miokalia for this direct attack, then please both parties message to verify such.

Also, in the future, if you are going to be using a super device of some sort, or have a large amount of weapons of mass destruction, I would like such information posted somewhere before it is used in an RP, so as to avoid god mode-ing. A good way to do this would be to post in the Who's Who thread a thread along the lines of 'Classified-Union of Tinis' (change the name). I'll let it be known now that Tinis keeps only the maximum 25 nukes allowed by resolution 108.5 and all of them are either air craft launch or sea launch (no missile silos). And the PDS is already in my countrys write up. I would also ask people to lable things as either secret or public knowledge for such things. (PDS = public, Crazy Jay's Moon-killing-ray-that-i-just-made-up=probably secret)

I know everyone loves surprise super weapons, but its getting a little out of hand. Also, I know some countries work on the premiss of having awesome intel agencies, but do be aware, that people posting their ultra tech military systems does not give you free reign on knowing every little thing about them. If you want to have an agent figure out what something is, or that it even exists, please consult with the owner first and set up an appropriate rp.

Finally, never, never, never, ever shoot first and claim the death of all your enemy/destruction of major cities/total p0wnage in other areas. Just shoot. If you've done the proper before work (aka, talked to the person you are rp-ing with as to where both of you would like it to go), then the person who's stuff is being target can have a reasonable chance to present a logical out come to the attack. Else it turns into 'bang bang, your dead' 'no I'm not! I shoot you!' 'Nuh, uh!' real quick, which is lame.

And one more thing, google if your friend. Also, I'm a physicist in real life. I am very happy to discuss the plausibility of various technologies with you and to give suggestions on adding realisim to a situation. Realism = great at keeping people interested and the situation interesting. Save the absurdity for the personal stories, movie posts, and upcoming elections in country X.

Alright, feel free to discuss here the events, ways to resolve them, or how much I suck for some reason here. I hope there are no hard feelings from this, but when things start heading down hill, I gotta act.

[Ixnill]

Do note that I gave Miokalia an ultimatum, ergo it was his choice to continue with his assault and suffer the consequences of his actions. Also note that I never declared the destruction of his cities. In fact I haven't declared much ultimate destruction of anything in my posts. I always leave it open ended for other people to decide their losses.

Ah yes... surprise super weapons too. Surprise super weapons are a trademark of villains plotting global domination. I already allowed everyone to exploit a weakness... a weakness that worked well. No one should act butthurt when a weapons system acts immune to attack when that system was obviously developed with certain attacks in mind.

In fact the only people I've seen readily decreeing particular losses out of the blue are Cal and Miokalia. Perhaps the concern should be taken up with them. Until then, I bid you all adieu.

[The Union of Tinis]

This wasn't directed to any one party as I observed issues with several of us here.

[miokalia]

As far as rules go: this thread was hurdling toward the realm of godmod-wankery at an incredible pace. In fact, it was already there.


I quit primarily because if I didn't, I was going to have to start breaking the rules of the pseudoscience I'm using just to barely survive an onslaught being generated from an impossible amount of resources.
And it was getting downright stressful to write these posts.


I'm not advocating Ixnill to be kicked out, not at all. I think we can all coexist just as long as we don't wage godmod-wankery wars like this last one. I think, if anything we ought to set up a couple of rules about wars, including: No total annihilation without specific conscent.

The war concent rule already exists (and I didn't consent to this individually, I should have quit sooner, oh well). But I think that we need to establish, as a general rule, that total wars, like this was becoming, should *probably* only be done between a player and a dummy nation, or a player playing both sides of a civil war. As that is really the most sucessful way to do this as seen so far (examples: Cal civil war, Ciata civil war, Pargalo)

As for RP continuity following this whole thing. I think an erase-rewind policy would be most effective.
I suggest others have input on this so we're all on the same page

[Killer Zoids]

If we do follow the erase-rewind system then the only changes to the world I need to make clear is the GPSUX satellites not being made from zoids any more. Instead, they're just the next generation GPS satellites, sans any sort of weaponry.

[Erenmor]

miokalia said:

As for RP continuity following this whole thing. I think an erase-rewind policy would be most effective.
I suggest others have input on this so we're all on the same page

And I was having so much fun with the diplomatic debates in the resolutions section of the forum... *sigh*

[Ixnill]

And then I leave.

[Killer Zoids]

Aww, theres more to this region than war! Stick around, get involved.

[Ixnill]

Sorry... but I take offense when my debut threads are trashed by those who can barely RP.

[Killer Zoids]

Thats too bad, I was interested in seeing your nation's other talents than nuking people :/

[The Union of Tinis]

I've not made a decision yet on what should be done nor what I will be doing.

But I would like to make things clear on how I see things:

1. Wars between players should be allowed, but not mandatory. Aka, if you don't want to be in a position where your nation could be damaged by conflict, you should be able to avoid conflict, but at the same time, would not be able to damage the other side in a conflict.

How this played out in the grid thread seemed to suggest initially that all sides understood the scale of what was going down. But the scale was not maintained as things turned from threat to agressive actions very quickly.

2. I believe having better defined what might go on in a thread later is a good idea. In that vein, don't think of your fellow rpers as enemies all the time, aka, when you think of the federation in out of character terms. Take that moment and think a head of where a thread might be going. And if you are uncertain of what is at stake, contact the person starting off the action.

3. Being honest up front about one's military capabilities in a war situation can be a nice curtesy for out of character planning. If someone would get crushed going up against you and effectively have their nation whiped off the map, they might not want to get involved in a conflict, and thus will excersis that opting out thing. On the flip side, if you are too unbelievably strong that no one can or will oppose you, then you might not get that conflict you've been wanting. Both sides need a chance else why go to war?

4. Communication, again, between players when the situation is tense, is highly important. I see most of the active players on AIM at least a couple times a week, so its not like people are not available. Planning not just for your in character advantage, but for out of character fun for all is kind of nice. I beg of everyone to go out of your way and communicate!

5. To reiterate, I don't care what your capabilities are, do not assume max damage to the enemy. Its just bad form.

6. To reiterate, I don't care what your capabilities, take a few hits. Else its also bad form.

I don't mean to be pissy or to berate any one, but please take to heart what I have to say before blaming any one. Becoming better role players is something we all should strive to be.

I've taken some time ane weighed options. And so far I would like to see this.

I would like to see this situation salvaged. I would like each of you whom have a steak in the thread to talk to one another and figure out what collectively you want to happen. And I do mean collectively. I want one answer from everyone on what should be done. This will require you to communicate and to be able to compromise. I know a lot of times people get upset when forced to do this, but if everyone can do this, I honestly think you'll be the better for it. So PM people or get on aim or what ever. Use IRC, I don't care. I don't want each tiff to be the end of the world, and to ensure that is not the case, we each need to confront our strong and weak points in role playing. And to be able to swallow our pride. And to stop taking things so seriously.

While everyone gets on this, I'll start drafting some war guidelines to make it a little more clear what is a good way to rp war what is not. If people are doing threatening actions against another player nation that could lead to direct open conflict, that should be flagged as a war thread. If people are doing spy games that don't lead to open conflict, that's not a war thread, but you should still discuss what's going down.

If everyone can agree on what should be done with the grid, I'll be happy to go along with it provided its reasonable and conforms to previously established forum rules. But I would need a confirmation from all the following to ensure it was mutually agreed upon. Once a plan is drafted, someone post it in this folder and the following post that they agree.

Cal
Ixnill
KillerZoids
Miokalia

[edit: Erenmor has bowed out of this and is thus leaving the decision making process to the remaining 4]

And if others want to give suggestions, go for it. But remember, this isn't a democratic consensus. It must be unanimous! Aka everyone agrees to it. Now get talking as this drama is taking way to long as is. And please don't be a dork about wanting to get your own way absolutly, its a sure fire way to prevent anyone from having fun. Don't be a kill joy, it will only bring ye grief.

[Ixnill]

Certainly a thought, but do note I'm this close (| |) to moving my country out of the region.

[Erenmor]

For my part, I'd prefer not to see any large-scale destruction. At least not until I get back from my army term so my country can take the advantage to profit from another clean-up detail.

In all seriousness, though... I was perfectly happy with most of my responses being in the "Resolutions etc." section. The whole issue isn't such in my nation's case, what with the overwhelming majority of it being underground... The only things that made sense responding to were political issues to keep my own satellites safely where they were.

So what I'm trying to say is... I'm not much of a side in the issue proper here, and by the look of things, I'll be gone from the forums for my term by the time it's all sorted out. So I'll just see what the damage is when I get back.

[Ciata]

ixnill said:

Certainly a thought, but do note I'm this close (| |) to moving my country out of the region.

Well given your promise in your signature about wanting to bring apocalypse, I can see why this change would bother you, but honestly, not everyone wants their countries to be destroyed, many people put a lot of effort and time and thought into forming their countries and cities and people and don't wish it to be decimated at the drop of a hat, that's not what they're for. This isn't Risk, where you draw your cards and move your pieces and fight and take over the world in turn and then put the board up and put it away to start over again some other day. This is a serious attempt by most to create realistic societies that meet what we desire with some realistic strains in it, and in realistic societies, you can't afford to be fighting massive nuclear wars all the time. I myself have had my country on this site alone for over 2 1/2 years, and others around the same, it's not something we just made up overnight to throw around and play with to the edge of destruction and beyond.

[Killer Zoids]

I've not been in this region very long, but I've most certainly been tending to my nation a LONG time.

You don't get a population of 8.5 billion over night

Regardless, I like my country and don't want to see it destroyed.