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Post by Erenmor on Aug 5, 2007 7:31:33 GMT -5
"If I may interrupt, mister Fourier," Durand speaks up, "but since I believe we have been called to be honest in these discussions, I must ask: which of the aforementioned two categories do you count the weapon you used during the recent Pargalo incident?"
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Post by miokalia on Aug 5, 2007 13:18:45 GMT -5
"That was precision strike to disable military systems. Landmines planted by the regime caused it to appear to be much more powerful than it was.", said Fourier. Then he opened up a teletext channel and said privately to Durand, "Do you want to get rid of these satellites or not?"
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Post by Erenmor on Aug 5, 2007 15:04:04 GMT -5
"By all means, take out *their* whole grid for all we care," Durand messaged back, "but disrupting our own satellite network will not go over well."
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Post by The Union of Tinis on Aug 5, 2007 19:12:24 GMT -5
Waldo reappeared in the council chamber while Durand and Fourier were speaking, brief case in hand. Waldo spoke in whispers with the First Speaker for a few moments and presented a paper and pen. Izixs signed it quickly and Waldo bounded back out.
"Sorry to interrupt folks but I've just gotten word that indeed weaponry is being fired by several sides and thus for the safety of my nation and this council, the Tinisian Pattern Defense System is being activated as there is likely hood this exchange could escalate quickly. All your governments are being informed as I speak. As most of you are hopefully aware the PDS will effectively cut us off from the outside world entirely for a short period of time until communication channels are entered into the system directly. Those of you whom are regulars will know the drill of course, but for those unused to the deployment of the PDS, Tinis includes the council chambers and the city of Altzan, and the surrounding area inside the bubble of the PDS as per the directive of council resolution 103, section 2, part b. Attacks from missiles, satellites, or space armadas constitute a clear and presant danger to this council and thus it is our perogative to keep everyone here safe and to allow the discussion to continue unhindered."
[OOC: For the sake of the time line, I highly highly HIGHLY recommend allowing the meeting here to finish up before any new action occures in Setting Up the Grid. Having the world go from strained and angry to everything being blown up before someone finishes a sentance doesn't really make sense. But a single post or two of initial reactions to the Tinisian communications that the PDS is going up and its activation may be appropriate, but again restrain yourself from having a day or two's worth of action pass while the meeting is going on as it doesn't take that long to yell at each other. Also, for those unaware the PDS is a barrier system that pevents anything entering or exiting with the sole exception of certain allowed particles (gravity, some frequencies of light) and even then there are massive distortions in signals that move through it, slowing down communication once the comm frequencies are opened up but making it possible. If other information is needed, let me know and I'll be happy to tell you.]
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Post by Erenmor on Aug 6, 2007 14:48:08 GMT -5
Durand seemed rather unsettled at the idea of being severed from the main Erenmor network, for however short a time. He still spoke up, regardless, maintaining a calm and steady voice.
"Mister Izixs, if what you say is true, then it would appear the meeting is a moot point, as the individual nations have decided to remove the offending satellites themselves," he said, briefly turning his head towards the delegates from Cal and Miokalia. "Erenmor, for its part, has no objection to the presence of these satellites, though be assured we will be monitoring them very closely. This only leaves the question... which nations have opened fire? Those that have not, still have reason to attend this meeting and work out a peaceful solution to the entire issue. Those who fired... I believe they've made their point clear enough with their actions."
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Post by The Union of Tinis on Aug 6, 2007 19:46:39 GMT -5
[Sorry wasn't clear, Izixs was speaking in my last post]
"Well," said Izixs. "The reports are thus. Cal has fired at the satellites. The Cetacion-III has fired upon the satellites, and it is most closely associated with the Miokalian government as far as terrestrial powers so take that up with them. Some of the satellites have fired, most targeting incoming, but at least one ground strike as of last report, but the location is not believed to have been inhabited.
"I hope I'm not alone in calling what is going on madness. This meeting was meant to diffuse this situation, not to be a cover so that others could feel free to escalate!"
Izixs, his eyes appearing to be burning looked at Petria. "And you. Your nation's blatant attempts at subterfuge will work no longer. After I spoke with your boss I read the full psych report and the best guess estimates as to the nature and function of your grid.
"For those of you unaware, the offensive weaponry on these babies is likely some sort of anti-matter slug, protected from pre-mature matter contact by some sort of advanced magnetic shell system, likely similar to the stablization scheme being employed by most of the buggers now. A bit over kill for simple SDI. A laser capable of targeting ICBMs would of been much easier to build and impliment and could use tech most of us are familiar with. But no, your government had to go over the top!
"I had hoped it was simple SDI, then I could easily calm everyone's nerves here and maybe even put it to good use. But instead, we have missiles and carbon spheres and unknown projectiles and vanishing ships all moving about now. I don't know how they play things in Ixnill, but unless your leader is totally off their rocker, the only reason to place these things in orbit was to encourage an escalation of some sort. So what is your real reason for being here Petria? To try to sweet talk me? I played nice with your leader on the phone, but I have no such obligation to you."
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Post by Erenmor on Aug 7, 2007 15:08:20 GMT -5
"Ahem," Durand interrupted Izixs' rant. "I will agree that the responses by the overwhelming majority of sides in this have been less than rational. However, hurling accusations as well as whatever projectiles have gone into use isn't going to resolve the issue any sooner.
"What I propose is this: as there is no projer objection against low-powered missile-defence satellites, we may offer, as a gesture of good will, the technical specifications and technology to refit the current satellites of Ixnill to a level commonly acceptable by the nations of the Federation. Ixnill in turn would transfer control of the entire grid to the Federation in general. Objections? Counter-proposals?"
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Post by Killer Zoids on Aug 7, 2007 16:01:28 GMT -5
Lawlica stood up, after having arrived late, and being quiet for the part of the meeting she was there for, finally said something.
"Killer Zoids has launched it's own series of satellites who's main purpose is anti-satellite and ground monitoring/mapping. These space vehicles were originally the next generation of GPS, but with the launch of the grid, we found it prudent to install our own orbital defense system. The catch is, the devices we put into orbit cannot attack ground based targets, simply due to the limited range of their charged particle weaponry. They are designed to destroy other satellites in orbit, should the threat of the grid be proven-- and also as a measure against future such threats."
She reached into her briefcase and drew out a paper with a Kazian letter head. "To show our support for the safety and liberty of the federated nations, we have developed these SVs to be handed over to foreign governments immediately. Full turn over, in that KZ will not have access to any satellite it has given over to another government. This is a gesture of good will toward the federation, and if looked down upon, can be removed from orbit fully."
She continued to glance over the document. "One of the Ixnill satellites which was disabled by the Callie nuclear blasts in space, exemplified the effectiveness of the GPSUX satellites we've implemented. The Ixnill craft was losing altitude and would have crashed in the center of the continent and possibly killed hundreds. Using the GPSUX system, we completely vaporized it from the atmosphere, in less than 5 minutes."
She looked around, aware she had the council's attention.
"Those nations who have Ixnill craft floating over head will receive first priority to the distribution of these new satellites, based on the number of grid vehicles in their air space."
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Ixnill
New Member
The growing threat of evil.
Posts: 22
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Post by Ixnill on Aug 7, 2007 21:04:50 GMT -5
"Completely refitting each of the satellites would be an overly expensive and unrealistic campaign," Petria spoke up, addressing Durand's suggestion. Her attention then turned to the overall subject Izixs brought to attention, the firepower of the Ixnill satellites. "And the reason for their strength has been explained several times already. The anti-matter weaponry would be quite useful in the case this planet ever falls under siege.
"We are willing to offer joint control of the satellites. That is what Ixnill places on the table for you. The mere fact that the system can benefit the entire planet surely must interest the Federation? We are currently working on expanding the software to lend you joint control."
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Post by Killer Zoids on Aug 7, 2007 21:52:16 GMT -5
"We're not doubting the fact that your satellites can be useful in protecting the planet from an attack, but Mr. Fourier of Miokalia expressed a simple fact.. When was the last time we had an alien civilization attempt to attack?" Said Lawlica.
The other concern I think we all have is the fact that your satellites are easily capable of destroying ground targets. Speaking for the Kazian government, we must express that such power from space is too dangerous to yield, even if said network was distributed. The system my government has implemented, with the GPSUX sats, would be sufficient in destroying any atmospheric threat, without the danger of a miss fire reaching the ground below. Our satellites can target things in orbit and relatively near objects in space, but the CPC devices they are equipped with, will not cut through the entire atmosphere. They can swat ICBMs or high flying craft, but that is their limit."
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Ixnill
New Member
The growing threat of evil.
Posts: 22
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Post by Ixnill on Aug 7, 2007 22:42:46 GMT -5
"My Leader has always wisely stated 'be prepared for even the impossible,' " Petria responded as she began addressing Lawlica. "Certainly an alien invasion has not occured recently, but are you willing to take the risk of being unguarded when it finally does happen? Make no mistake... the future always remains a mystery to us, and if you remain unprepared for the future, you may find yourself in dire straits.
"The possibility to fire at the ground does seem scary, but then... what if some manner of low-flying missile is developed? Possible risks need to be realized and protected against. Not everyone in this world is part of the Federation, and so we must remain wary and guarded. Until a time comes that the Federation spans the world itself, we must tread carefully around our neighbors."
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Post by The Union of Tinis on Aug 8, 2007 1:13:33 GMT -5
"You're stalling," said Izixs bluntly. "But as we have some time before communication with the outside is reestablished, we do have some time to waste on such excuses. A low flying missile could be taken out by ground based weaponry more accuratly, more efficently, and with less risk of collateral damage than your system. No, the more I read the report on the analysis the more I realized this was not simply an honest mistake of putting a sledgehammer where a rock hammer was needed. This was greed.
"Tell me Petria, do you consider yourself a patriot? Or do you consider yourself a servant?"
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Post by Erenmor on Aug 8, 2007 13:21:17 GMT -5
"I would object, mister Izixs," Durand spoke up, sounding impatient. "The sooner we sort this out, the sooner we can lift that insufferable information barrier. If it is to be a joint system, then I've every trust in the Federation nations that they'd be willing to make it joint-funded as well just to have it out of their hair. Let us focus on matters down to earth first, before we seek out threats among the stars. Again, my proposal: a refit of the satellites with weaponry of lower power, accepted by consensus of the Federation nations. With joint funding and joint control. Once that is sorted out, we can approach the issue of a system dedicated to defence from threats from space.
"Perhaps I am in the minority in this, but I would rather see a threat from space not as an invasion from one alien species or another. I would be far more worried by a comet, asteroid or planetoid strike that could have drastic consequences for the world at large. And against things like that, I honestly doubt what you have on the satellites now would be of much use..."
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Post by Ciata on Aug 8, 2007 17:24:11 GMT -5
(OOC) Ok, lets throw some reality into this. Anti matter canons on satellites? I know this is all friendly for super-tech and all, but anti-matter canons to destroy missiles?
"the satellites' anti-matter cannons flared to life and began firing off bolts of annihilative power towards the incoming projectiles."
Do you have any idea how rare and how hard it is to just produce anti-matter? Not to mention it's virtually impossible to use it in a beam form because all it does it explode when coming into contact with real matter.
I mean, the cost, anti-matter is THE MOST EXPENSIVE THING IN THE WORLD. $300 billion per milligram. Is how valuable it is. And it takes up to a year to produce that much with massive facilities and it's almost impossible to store. In order to produce just 1 gram, the amount needed to actually use it in a military operation you would need to spend 100 quadrillion dollars and run an antimatter factory for 100 billion years to store up that much.
Next is magnetic satellite grids? First of all, if one was destroyed the whole system would bunch together and destroy themselves. Also the magnetic pull, even in a vacuum, is too small to spread over hundreds of miles. There's no magnet possible that would extend its reach even 10 miles to be able to hold something in perfect ballance that would be required. Not to mention if it were able then it would also react to magnets and metals on the earth's surface which would be even closer.
Also, 29 nukes, even tactical nukes, each one would possibly create a fallout area of 30,000+ square miles, EACH. Your talking about creating a dust cloud that could cover almost 1 MILLION square miles, or 1/200th of the earth's surface.
And to all governments, think about the economy of war. The immense cost of waging war and keeping huge armies and super technologies and developing invincible weapons all the time. The cost of the war in Iraq with just conventional weapons is going to cost 2 trillion dollars, or over 1/5th the US national debt.
Also shields that can cover whole cities from any attack would require the level of power generated in small stars, a fact I thought of when I foolishly threw in the "heaven stones" as tiny fission reactors, which is what it would take to create one, just on a scale of millions of times the power and cost.
KEEP IT REALISTIC PLEASE. I could figure this out with 20 minutes of googling, it's really not that hard to study before you write something. If you want magical weapons and stuff that doesn't have to have any of the laws of physics of reality or economics to it, then go play D&D or something.
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Post by The Most Holy Sandwich on Aug 9, 2007 12:28:14 GMT -5
OOC: Nothing about The Most holyCrusadion Empire is realistic... Even so,I do try to keep in mind things like scale and fairness. Concider how much of the weaponry the Empire supposedly has are either strictly small scale unique decvices, or purely Misinformation. Sure, I have power-armored spacemarines, but there's maybe 800 at most, and they're strictly shock force... though they do give the UN types a sound mollywhopping on a regular basis. Doom cannons? there's 12 of them, and they're all unique highly experemental weapons that aren't even guarenteed to work. Sheilds? Plasma based. Not completely reliable, and only on the really important stuff. The sandwichians have some wierd hyper tech stuff, but not a lot of it, and not anything they're willing to bring out on a large scale or on a regular basis.
IC: Rather than the ususal delegation who rarely if ever came to such meetings, the session was attended by a handsome redhaired woman in The black and silver of an Imperial Inquisitor. Escorting her were A pair of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, armed only with truncheons in deferance to the Federation's ideals, who stood behind the dusty chairs normally un-occupied by the Empire's Ambassador and his similarly incompetant aides near the back of the council chamber.
She sat silently, observing the procedings and occasionally scribbling a few nortes on a datapad.The Stormtroops faces hidden behind the mirrored faceplates of their helmets, stood motionless to either side of the Inquisitor.
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