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Post by The Union of Tinis on Oct 29, 2007 0:10:37 GMT -5
The Union of Tinis would like to make two proposals.
The first shall be the cessation of provisional status and the attainment full membership of The Machine Dominion of Erenmor into the Federation and that they shall be among equals at the council, its proceedings, and activities and shall be granted the rights and responsibilities awarded any member of the Furry Federation.
As Erenmor has been with the federation some time, it is their right to claim full membership without doubt.
The second question is this:
The Furry Federation resolves that the actions of the Morskoj over its history constitutes a threat to the nation of Erenmor, and that independant of the origion of the attacks that have begun the various rounds of conflict in recent years, the nation of Morskoj is in a state of war against a federation member nation (provisional or full, it should not matter). As the Morskoj have refused either arbitration, enterance into the federation, or assistance from federation member nations in this conflict in either military or diplomatic capacities, it is clear that they desire war upon Erenmor.
As such, this is a situation where a non-member nation is at war with a member nation. Therefore, by the powers outlined in Resolution 103, section 7d, and by the guiding principle of the founding of this federation, we, the member nations of the Furry Federation here by declare that the Furry Federation Defense Forces shall be authorized and directed to commence opperations against the rouge nation of Morskoj with the goal of ending their war against Erenmor and to remove the leadership of that nation from power. This directive shall not be construde to allow or encourage acts of genocide against the Morskoj people nor shall it allow or encourage war crimes, acts of torture, or conduct unbecoming of the Furry Federation Defense Forces. All prisoners shall treated as prisoners of war independant of the conditions of their capture.
The conflict with Morskoj shall be ended at the surrender of the highest authority present at that time in Morskoj that claims to representation that government or its military to either Erenmor, any other Federation member nation, or the Furry Federation Defense Forces, and the Furry Federation Defense Forces after which shall have up to six months to completely withdraw from the nation of Morskoj. If the commanding general of the Furry Federation Defense Forces requests, the federation council may consider an extenstion of up to one year after that period.
During the discussion of this resolution, each member nation may nominate a member of thier military to head up the operations in Morskoj. If there is contention over who should head up the operations, a voice vote shall be held immediatly after the passage of this resolution.
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The Union of Tinis has pulled as many of our personel from Morskoj territory as possible at the start of the current wave of violence.
As for nominies for the supreme commander of the operations, The Union of Tinis nominates Commander Jebbidia Usil of Tinis. We believe his experience in the Shimadu, Lemur, and Pargalonian theaters would be an asset to the cause. He is also willing to serve either as head of the FFDF forces against Morskoj or to act directly under the leader.
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Post by Erenmor on Oct 31, 2007 19:11:07 GMT -5
The Machine Dominion of Erenmor of course supports both proposals. However, we do advise that a military operation against Morskoj would be a very challenging undertaking. To this end, we would like to commit some of our own troops to the project, under the direction of Xander Morhaime. However, if we were to assume supreme command over the effort, it might put the endeavour in a bad light - thus, ours will be a primarily supporting role.
***
In addition, records of military engagements with Morskoj forces have been provided, consisting of sensor logs and tactical readouts some dating back as far as 400 years. Excluding the initial war that established Erenmor as a country in its own right, these engagements have been incited by the Morskoj side in an overwhelming majority of cases.
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Post by Kingdoms of Cal on Nov 10, 2007 16:09:34 GMT -5
Joe, the Calie representative stands to speak for the first time, for a teerie she was well dressed (well for one thing she was waring clothes)
"Though initial victory is guaranteed I see no exit plan from this and it has quagmire written all over it.
We will leave our forces surrounded by a largely hostile people and the inclusion of Erenmoren forces will only exasperate the situation. The use of force will not stabilize the situation, just cause it to get worse.
We welcome Erenmor to the federation but do not believe that the use of force is a good option. Other means must be found, ideally by giving the people thier own chance to deal with there own problems.
As clause 7d states I quote 'Direct the Furry Federation Defense Forces into military action against outside invaders and terrorist forces or to maintain order in situations where the sovereign government of a Federation member nation has collapsed and no sovereign entity is recognized.'
We do not believe what is being placed before the council will maintain order in the medium or long term. We can only see that what has been place before the council as fally and will cost the lives of many of our armed forces.
If we thought that invasion would work we would have landed in K-IX rather than trying to talk to them or at least find someone we can talk with who might be capable of winning the hearts and minds of the people.
If you want to create a never ending quagmire, you are welcome to. We will provide what is required of use by the fed, but it will be minimal as we can see this can only get worse if the fed gets involved."
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Post by The Union of Tinis on Nov 12, 2007 23:16:12 GMT -5
Waldo soon took the floor, "First off I would like to point out the differences between Morskoj and K IX. Primarily, that in the first instance, nuclear weaponry has been used, while it has not in the latter case. Secondly, the attacks reported by your nation by K IX pirates are minor compared to the repeated military insurrections put forth by the Morskoj. Pirates are a threat to your businesses, armies are a threat to the soverignty of Erenmor.
"Second, the resolution says nothing about occupying Morskoj. If such becomes necessary then the federation should make a seperate resolution in those regards, or individual nations could volunteer forces. But occupation is not the goal. The goal is to cripple the military of Morskoj and to end its current train of controlling individuals. I'm sure an innovative commander could figure out the best way to do that. I've already spoken with Commander Usil and he has ideas, some conventional, some not, that could reduce the number of casualties on both sides. Sharing of such insights is of course not ideal in a public forum such as this, but if anyone wishes to meet with me or Commander Usil at other times, Tinis is willing to share ideas.
"So basically, don't give up so easily. War is already upon Erenmor. To stand by and do nothing is to betray the idea of this very federation. The first part of that section allows us to direct the FFDF against invaders and terrorists whom attack the federation. That is exactly what is going on! To say otherwise is foolery. And order? Erenmor has been maintaining the status quo for years and one can hardly say these battles represent order. Morskoj must be stopped."
The raccoon yielded the floor again.
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Post by Erenmor on Nov 17, 2007 23:12:46 GMT -5
Xander Morhaime, having recently arrived from Erenmor, took the floor, decked out in a plain black uniform with a red collar, no distinctions.
"As mister Waldo has already said, this meeting is not about how best to avoid a war," the fox began in a calm, steady voice. "This war has already been going on for longer than just about everyone in this assembly has been alive. We have recently seen an escalation in this conflict... first the fierce raid that drew such public outcry, and now this deployment of nuclear weapons.
"I should remind the council that our country does not have the luxury of discussing this matter at length until a proper course of action can be decided upon. We have no guarantee that the next nuclear blast might not take place at our own installations. It is in our current interests that the Morskoj military, especially their weapons stockpiles, be wiped from the map quickly and decisively. Our own troops are ready to undertake such operations at a moment's notice. As has been said, occupation is not on anyone's mind here - and I would ask that discussions of it are made part of a separate process to speed up the decision on THIS matter at hand.
"We have held our ground against Morskoj thus far, curbing their violent tendencies at considerable expense. However, we cannot guarantee how long our defences will last if they continue to escalate the situation. And if we should be overcome, there is no telling where their attention will turn next. Thus, I respectfully request that we put a stop to this problem before it grows to vast for us to handle."
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Post by Kingdoms of Cal on Nov 17, 2007 23:14:55 GMT -5
Joe retook the foor "So what you are saying is any man jack can join the fed and then call on us to spend our lives as it is"
Joe made quotation marks and says " 'in the spirit' of the federation"
Joe continued "I don't see why a johnny come lately should be given the same rights as a long term member. One that comes with a know long term problems should be left to deal with them."
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Post by Erenmor on Nov 18, 2007 18:47:01 GMT -5
Xander took the floor again briefly.
"With the current situation, you're pretty much damned either way, let's face it. If you join in to help us remove the threat that Morskoj pose, their population will see you as accomplices. If you don't and we slag them further back than the bloody stone age on our own anyway for our own safety, they'll start whining how you protect a bunch of murderous machines from international justice.
"Still, if you're as concerned with helping their nation as you claim, then you'd support the Federation involvement. That way you can at moderate our own methods of waging war in favour of lessening the political and social impact of the action. Anyone familiar with our... efficiency during the Pargalo invasion can guess we don't make a good impression left to our own devices at war."
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Post by Kingdoms of Cal on Nov 18, 2007 19:40:37 GMT -5
Joe retook the floor "So, if I can get this straight, you are saying, you are a bunch of murderous genocidal killers and we should aid you to stop you behaving in such a manner?"
"Why in the my ancestors name should my people or the fed come in on your side?!?!"
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Post by Erenmor on Nov 18, 2007 20:21:31 GMT -5
"Because, unlike Morskoj, we're perfectly happy to let you continue living however you see fit so long as you afford us the same courtesy?" Xander replied with a perfectly sincere smile. "Every nation has its little flaws. Some have a brutally efficient military force, others invent such wonderful ways of maiming their fellow sentient life like the Diamond-line of weaponry... And yet we somehow manage to get along most of the time without slagging each other. Come on and show some good will towards a probationary Federation member, you've shown enough of it to Morskoj already."
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Post by The Union of Tinis on Nov 18, 2007 20:53:02 GMT -5
"I would like to point out that the Servants of Light, whom teamed up with several like minded organizations elsewhere in the federation, have their origions with the Morskoj. Everyone seemed much more cavalier about going after Pargalo when SoL and RLM had connections there after several terrorist attacks, but when their bretheren attack Erenmor, silence." Waldo paused. "I do realize of course that Cal was having a civil war at that time. So I'm curious, Joe, where would Cal of stood if your nation was free from troubles when Miokalia partook a preemtive strike against Pargalo with only connections via terrorist and not whole armies were established?"
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Post by Kingdoms of Cal on Nov 23, 2007 21:22:34 GMT -5
Joe smiles a says "We do not intervene if we can help it, Waldo. We have fought many wars between our own and have learned no one wins. We have moved, but only when to honor a treaty they was being quite rightly being called upon. Called upon by a weaker, less aggressive people. In that case we were ask in. In the other use of force that the commonwealth has carried out in it short history has been a blockade to prevent attacks on not only ours but all federation ships. We were the naval power in the area and we acted. Have any ships been attacked since? We did not send land forces, we did not attack them, we simply denied them the open sea. The unfortunate events of the last few days were simply our navy and air force defending them selves. Perhaps your armed forces don't have the freedom our do, but you can't put a fur in harms way and tell them not to defend them selves and their comrades. Also if you note V has not been invaded we have not one troop carrier in the fleet. So to the point Miokalia did not ask my people to die in service of their cause, we would have stood back. They did not request Fed forces, which by implication, means all of our forces. If as I said Erenmor wishes to deal with this issue alone, Cal will not intervene, provided they respect the red serpent. As for weapons, as I believe Erenmor's really nasty stuff isn't nuclear*, I doubt they can talk. More to the point it's not what you have it's what you do with it." ---- Passes a note to Waldo "We have been picking up where and what some of the nasty stuff is, thanks that base has made life much easier. We trust neither side so have been keeping an eye on both, though I fear Morskoj may have another nuke, we are tracking it's possible location." A second note was pass "Hell its note primed and here's GPS...." ---- The agents they had pulled out had picked up a number of things. ---- * furfed.proboards36.com/index.cgi?board=legislation&action=display&thread=1161570124&page=1#1161971645 |
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Post by Llewellynlland on Nov 25, 2007 0:13:17 GMT -5
The ambassador of Llewellynlland brushes off the cobwebs on his jacket before standing. "These nations who we have welcomed into our peaceful land now threaten all of us with such barbarous weapons of war. We must regretfully stand with those who would stand against such a threat." Nods to ambassador Waldo "Supplies, volunteers and what forces we have are at your disposal."
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Post by Kingdoms of Cal on Nov 26, 2007 19:01:25 GMT -5
Joe nods to Llewellynlland and says "Our main concern is that sending forces at this time is not going to do anything but make the situation worse. Given the age of the conflict and long standing animosity on both sides I fear that any force put in will simply become bogged down in the middle of brief civil war, if it is lucky, or suffer decades of low level fighting.
Ideally we should be looking to find a long term solution before we go in mob handed and provide the fanatics with more targets. Currently we do not believe Morskoj is a major threat to anyone, other than them selves. Ideally more time should be given to explore other avenues, if the government of Morskoj will not talk to us, then we should find someone there that will. This will become impossible if we already have forces on the ground. People tend to rally to the flag when foreign forces invade a country, no matter how well intentioned.
And again I am very concerned over the suggestion that Erenmor be involved, this to the people of Morskoj would give the force the appearance of a support for for a Erenmor invasion, something that they have resisted for decades."
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Post by The Union of Tinis on Nov 26, 2007 23:25:40 GMT -5
[OOC note: I'll be closing the vote tomorrow. So please cast those votes soon!]
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Post by Llewellynlland on Nov 28, 2007 12:52:41 GMT -5
"The government of Morskoj has shown no intention of peaceful resolution nor willingness to negotiate. If we allow such to continue the people still suffer and die while we argue on what to do the next time negotiations fail. The volunteer forces of Llewellynlland are happy place their lives on the line to defend those who cannot defend themselfs." The ambassador gazes about the chamber "As to the question of Erenmor troop involvement, under the Furry Federation Defense Forces command such forces can have contact with the opposing force minimized and supervised. We simply cannot stand by and talk while this senseless conflict continues. At least if we show force we have a chance of bringing bolth sides to the peace tables."
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